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Bonus Spells not showing up

Discussion in 'Pathfinder' started by Daeruin, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. Daeruin

    Daeruin New Member

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    Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this topic. If not, feel free to have it moved.

    I'm using Pathfinder to create a Druid, but d20pro doesn't seem to be giving me all my bonus spells. (As a level 1 Druid I should get three level 0 spells per day and one level 1 spell per day. With a 17 in Wisdom, I should get bonus spell slots for one level 1, one level 2, and one level 3 spell. From what I understand, I should be able to cast any spell up to level 7 based on my Wisdom score. But, as I mentioned, d20pro isn't giving me all the bonus spell slots I should have. It seems to be giving me my level 1 bonus slot, but not the level 2 or level 3. I've used other d20 products before, but not Pathfinder, so maybe my understanding of this is wrong.)

    Anybody know what's going on?
     
    #1 Daeruin, Dec 27, 2010
  2. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    You are correct, the Druid gains bonus spells based on the WIS ability (page 17). Also, with a 17 WIS score, that Druid can cast up to a 7th level spell. What the book may not explicitly state is this: spell-casters may only use bonus spells when they normally gain access to spells in that specific spell level. Also, spell-casters core ability score only determines the maximum spell level they can cast, this is typically much higher than what the spell-caster can initially cast.

    All bonus spells are applied once the spell-caster gains access to that level of spells. Thus, a level 1 character only has access to 0th and 1st level spells and can access the bonus spells associated with 1st level. As the character progresses to higher levels and gains access to level 2 spells they will also gain access to their bonus 2nd level spell. In the druid spell class, they will gain 2nd level spells when they reach Druid 3rd Level. You can look at the chart on page 50 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook for the quick listing of levels and when Druids gain access to higher level spell slots. If there is a dash "-" in the column for the specified level, that spell-caster has no ability to cast that level of spell even if they have bonus spells for that level.

    Character Level : Spell Level - Normal Spell Slots
    1st : 0th Level - 3 Spell Slots 1st Level - 1 Spell Slot + Bonus 1st Level Spell Slot (if any)
    2nd : 0th Level - 4 Spell Slots 1st Level - 2 Spell Slots
    3rd : 0th Level - 4 Spell Slots 1st Level - 3 Spell Slots 2nd Level - 1 Spell Slot + Bonus 2nd Level Spell Slot (if any)
    etc. etc.
     
    #2 edwardcd, Dec 27, 2010
  3. Daeruin

    Daeruin New Member

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    Hmmmm. Your explanation makes sense, but I'm not sure I'm convinced. I read all the relevant sections of the rulebook like three times to try to understand this, because I assumed that if it was built into d20pro, then I must be wrong. But I have just re-read the relevant sections and you're right that it's not explicitly stated in the book. Here's what the book does say:

    Page 49: "Like other spellcasters, a druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 3–7. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table 1–3)." (Emphasis mine.)
    Page 220: "To prepare a divine spell, a character must have a Wisdom score (or Charisma score for paladins) of 10 + the spell’s level. Likewise, bonus spells are based on Wisdom."
    Page 220: "The character class tables show how many spells of each level each can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels."

    The only one that hints that bonus spells might be limited by the class chart is the third one, but even then, it seems pretty clear to me that it's talking about the classes' base abilities. But those base abilities can be amplified by bonus spells, as stated in the first quote. I'm not trying to be combative here, but I genuinely don't see anything to convince me that higher-level bonus spells shouldn't be available. Is this just something that's so understood and accepted by the d20/OGL gaming community that it's been neglected in the rules or something?

    This also makes me wonder if I've been playing the other d20 games wrong! I played a channeler (spell caster) in a Wheel of Time d20 game for three years and constantly used my bonus spells to cast spells higher than I could otherwise do. My DM complained that I was overpowered; maybe this is why. :)
     
    #3 Daeruin, Dec 28, 2010
  4. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    Feel lucky that your previous DM let you bend the rules like that :)

    However, I did find the Pathfinder Ruling for this on page 16, under the heading "Abilities and Spellcasters".

    "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. See the class descriptions in Chapter 3 for details."

    Thus, if you don't have access to cast spells in that given spell level based on the class level, you do not get bonus spells for that spell level. Chapter 3 (Classes) details when each spellcaster gains access to each spell level and how many spells may be cast per day. The "-" denotes no access to that spell level. Whereas "0" indicates the character level may use the specified spell level if their ability score gives them bonus spell slots for the specified spell level.
     
    #4 edwardcd, Dec 28, 2010
  5. ogexam

    ogexam Member

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    You do not get bonus spells till you get at least a 0 in the entry on the spell progression chart for the class. For instance rangers get 0 1st level spells at 4th level, so if they have bonus spells they will be able to cast at 4th level.

    No matter how high your wisdom is if you are a 1st level druid you can only cast 1st level spells.

    Bonus spells means just that, once you are able to cast that level spell you get a bonus spell to cast.
     
    #5 ogexam, Dec 28, 2010
  6. Daeruin

    Daeruin New Member

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    Thank you! I was starting to wonder if I was crazy. Kinda strange that such an important aspect of spellcasting is limited to one line in the section on ability scores. It ought to be repeated in the section on casting spells.

    Regarding my DM, this was his first lengthy campaign as DM, and it was the first full-on d20 game most of us had played, including me. He was a pretty laid-back DM and relied on us to know the rules. Unfortunately I missed that one line clear in the beginning. Ah, well. Live and learn. Thanks again for the clarification!
     
    #6 Daeruin, Dec 28, 2010
  7. adolfainsley8

    adolfainsley8 New Member

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    You do not get bonus spells till you get at least a 0 in the entry on the spell progression chart for the class. For instance rangers get 0 1st level spells at 4th level, so if they have bonus spells they will be able to cast at 4th level???
     
    #7 adolfainsley8, Apr 20, 2016
  8. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    I just want to make a note in here and maybe the staff will get the bug fixed for pathfinder rules. Class like the Ranger and Paladin that at 4th level get 0 number of spells and if wisdom get a bonus spell in D20pro you will not have that spell show up, it gets treated just like a cleric and the other spell casters do. the 0 is treated as none so it does not add that bonus spell. my way around this is to add the spell to free form list for that level.
     
    #8 KainPen, Jul 14, 2016
  9. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Hi All.

    I'm deep in the weed re-writing the rules engine. I'll try to address this kind of miss in the current rules, but I expect to have a full Rules API ready for general consumption coming up by end of August -- unless I get con-crude at GenCon this year (takes his vitamins and sips his orange juice).

    Keep in mind the current D20PRO system is not meant to be an authoritative character builder. That being said, we're working to make it a lot better at that kind of stuff!
     
    #9 owlbear, Jul 19, 2016
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