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new rules library

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KainPen, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    I was wondering are we going to get some video tutorials on the new rules library system, and how to configure things or how it works? While the flow system for setting up an effect seem fairly strait forward. It is a still a bit confusing, because it is a lot more complex then the old ability effect system. Also explanation how the different sub-section of the rules library interact with each other. Such as traits and where do I create a spell effect so that it is stored, and i can tie it for spell like abilities, spells, and items?
     
  2. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    There are better docs and vids coming.

    Features is what you are looking for in the Features Library.
    Features are the mechanical bits that do things.
    Templates govern or constrain those mechanical elements.
    Traits or Spells hold the Features or Templates

    It does seem more complex, however don't let that overwhelm you, it's pretty similar in regard to the old legacy Abilities system. Many of the things are easily recognizable.

    upload_2017-8-1_13-49-0.png

    As you can see from this Flow example, this looks much like the Attack section

    upload_2017-8-1_13-57-22.png

    for a spell effect it also works in a like fashion to the old legacy Abilities, though the looks is somewhat different.

    upload_2017-8-1_14-2-36.png

    Here fairly shortly we will have rule-sets (for purchase) that will include all the base elements and mechanics for that system pre built for you. You'll be able to use those as templates for building your own stuff if you have a situation where you need something abstract from the norm or custom built.

    We've put this out, for people to tinker with during 3.7, see how things are going to look. We don't expect people to be building entire rules sets at this time, it was just a way to allow people to get their feet wet and offer some feedback. Likewise, by letting people tinker with the new system some, it would allow people to get a little familiar with it, in a limited environment (safe area) for a short time .. so when you do have a full rule-set people with be less likely to break things by tinkering around.
     
  3. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    Thanks I will try fooling with it a bit more tonight. I want to learn how to build my own stuff so, I can apply my custom house rules ect. later, I will defiantly buy the rule sets when they come out. It will save a ton of time. I saw there was a free test set in the market place. I got it, but I wanted to ask questions and find out more fooling around with and accidentally burning it to the grown. lol
     
  4. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    I didn't mean to say we would not be happy to answer questions and help along with the tinkering..

    I was more trying to assure the masses, that once we have rulesets there will be lots of examples to look at, clone and use to do your own stuff if needed..

    Starting from scratch would scare anyone, and rightly so :)
     
    Tay-Dor likes this.
  5. cranerat

    cranerat Member

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    Krillion, why wasn't this done before the release instead of crippling our games by not having a way to use what we have already created?
     
  6. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    A bit of iit s due to the commitments of the original KS, and new licensing we are working on. As in we needed that core functionality as a base to work from.
     
  7. cranerat

    cranerat Member

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    Playing with it a bit, I still can't get spells to work correctly as in applying damage. How do you use the spell lists from the Rules Library so you don't have to create one every time it's used by a player?
    I also can't export and import the Items Lists and mine weren't ported over from 3.6.11.
     
  8. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    I'm not clear on what you are asking really..

    Spells are located (and edited from) Rules Library -> Spells tab
    Those are then assigned to tokens by class.

    upload_2017-8-8_21-42-45.png

    A player or GM can tweak those when cast, by clicking on the 'effect' field of the spell casting dialog.

    not sure what you mean on Items, you can Import/Export from the Rules library -> Items

    upload_2017-8-8_21-36-8.png
     
    #8 Wesley Gorby, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  9. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    You make a spell in the Spell Library of the person running the game (DM's Spell Library). Make sure its a spell listed in the classes.txt and spells.txt (might not need both, not sure). Then when your player uses a spell off their spell list, as long as the name of that spell is the same as what 's in the DM Spell Library, it will use the feature from the DM's Spell Library.

    Hope that's not too confusing.
     
  10. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

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    Unfortunately, I give up.

    In 3.6.x, it was simple to toss an effect onto a player. We went to 3.7 and basically killed our campaign, as we couldnt figure it out.

    I dont know why it was released with zero documentation. It should have been left in a beta state until full documentation was available. Examples dont explain anything, they just let you copy/paste, which is great for 90% of things. However, those other 10% where you want to pull off something which previously was easy, is now impossible.
     
  11. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    You can do everything that could be done via the old Abilities/Effects system in the new system. Though it looks dif, mechanically it works much the same.

    Could you give us an example of what you mean here?
     
  12. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    There is nothing that says you cannot continue using 3.6 until you are comfortable with 3.7 and wish to move your game to that. In fact we even suggest that a lot (not migrating long standing/running games), with new builds and especially with Betas. There are learning curves involved for everyone, gm and players alike. Everyone needs to be comfortable with the new features and systems prior to converting.
     
  13. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

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    To clarify, Im not saying the mechanics dont exist or behave the same, Im saying in 3.6 it was intuitive, and 3.7 is not, then is compounded by lack of documentation.

    Its been a few weeks now, but best I can recall not being able to figure out how to apply a status effect was what finally forced our hands. It seemed impossible to 'cast' an effect without it having a source caster. In 3.6, as a GM, you simply said apply effect X to Y.

    I understand that jumping to a new version of software should require adjustment, but as it stands, there is no way to 'learn' 3.7 that we were aware of. We spent hours in an effort trying to figure out the new method before finally calling it quits. If 3.7 had been advertised as a beta, we would have stayed away, and that would have been acceptable.

    Im not trying to rant here, just offering feedback for your product. 3.6 was fantastic, and we got lots of use from it. I'm sure 3.7 will eventually be the same.
     
  14. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    Spontaneous Ability still exists in the B menu

    upload_2017-8-23_7-57-8.png

    upload_2017-8-23_7-59-29.png

    upload_2017-8-23_8-1-51.png

    upload_2017-8-23_8-4-14.png
     
  15. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    I get that, and appreciate you taking the time to post. It's an adjustment for everyone, us included. Like anything that is worth while, there will be odd steps in the process, we are committed and can see what it will be. I think what it 'will be' is far superior to what is was, even with a few growing pains along the way..

    Thank you for the patients and understanding..
     
  16. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    Also, I'd be more than willing to talk with you via Discord or Skype to offer help or help clarify where things are going. I've done that for several people, we had much the same response when we made the change to the new lighting mechanics. It through people pretty hard at first, but it's a solid plus now. A short one on one tutorial helped them adapt quicker, I'm more than willing to do that for you.
     
    #16 Wesley Gorby, Aug 23, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  17. cranerat

    cranerat Member

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    I'll take you up on that Krillon, otherwise I will end up looking for something that will resurrect my game. Since even 3.6.11 has that auto-update to players every time the GM does something on the map and broadcasts to all, which kills the game. The GM used to be able to make all the moves, add NPC, monsters and clone things, move them around and when finished, THEN broadcast the game once. Updating all the player maps once, not as many times in a single initiative that the GM made changes.
     
  18. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Lots of meat on this one ;)

    I'll start with the broadcast thing. I was also noticing that this changed. It slipped thru QA and didn't get caught. We're working to fix it. The main issue was that the broadcast system was being overused to sync data that shouldn't have been included as part of the broadcast. We have an update planned for tomorrow that may fix part of this, but the full fix for better broadcast control will likely be shortly after.

    I did do some basic testing and found that some of the bad behavior is the same (which I hope we can fix at the same time); specifically, if a player moves a token while the GM is setting things up then the map is broadcast to all players at the point.

    The main solution I'm thinking is to enable a "no-broadcast" option for the GM which pauses the sync from the GM to the players. Player actions would still be broadcast up stream but could be canceled by the GM (i.e. I said "hold on please")

    As to the lag and such, that's been identified and should be fixed in the beta we're planning to launch tomorrow. It had to do with syncing too much data during each broadcast. Basically there's a lot of static data that was getting pushed around when it shouldn't have been. Sent once and left unless changed.

    As to docs, Kril and I are working on it as fast as we can. I was away for a bit pre-Gen Con and then Gen Con itself cropped up. Add to that some of the chaos around getting the PHB launch set and out the door and you've got more weeks than I want to admit to between the 3.7.1 release and the launch.

    All of that being said, we're looking to rectify all as expediently as humanly possible.
     
  19. cranerat

    cranerat Member

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    Owlbear: Good deal. I'm looking forward to that fix. And Kilion: When you get a chance, I'd really appreciate some one-on-one time over Skype or even the Discord to help me understand how to set up the new system for spells and such. I'm not a rocket scientist (just a WiFi Engineer with Cisco programming background) but I'm not completely clueless either. I just haven't been able to get the results with 3.7.1 that I expect. And be safe with that Hurricane approaching man!
     
  20. cranerat

    cranerat Member

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    No, not too confusing. But now it means I have to match all the spells in the spell list with how they are listed "exactly" as I have them in the two text files instead of adding the most used as an ability to be chosen by the player and used. I have taken the time over the years to add ALL the spells from 3.5 and Pathfinder (from all the supplemental books) to my spell lists and associated to each spell casting class (which, BTW, have all been added also to the classes text file). Almost too daunting to start over again entering them all in as usable spells with notes and descriptions so when they are applied, and I need to mouse over them for the effects, I don't have to go reference the books again for exactly what was written and how they affect the target(s).
     

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