1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. While the majority of active discourse on D20PRO has moved to our Discord Channels, this forum is still active and checked-in on regularly by our staff. However, for the very latest information, conversation and/or immediate support, please join us on Discord here: http://discord.gg/Ph38ckM
    Dismiss Notice

Maps and Lag

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TwistedTechMike, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ive noticed on my larger scaled battle maps, our group sees lag when playing. Party of 4, each with unique light source and full shadowcasting. Is there a preferred size limit or recommended cap for map file size?

    Another question I have is this: does anyone use the in-game map building, and does it run faster than imported images?

    I'm just trying to find the fastest solution without turning down graphics so low my players cant tell what they're looking at on screen.
     
  2. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,443
    Likes Received:
    140
    The general rule of thumb is try to keep map size under 3mb and less than 300x300 squares.

    It doesn't really matter if you're using tiles or a single image. Also, it's a good idea to close any maps you are not actively using at the time.

    all of this has a lot of factors, Your machine, your connection to the web (both to and from), each of the players machines and their connection to the we (both to and from)..

    so, smaller is always going to be better

    if you'd like, upload your map here and I'll take a look at it. might be able to offer better suggestions.
     
    #2 Wesley Gorby, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  3. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think all of our maps have been smaller than 300x300, but file size may be the issue. The current map is 10.8MB JPG.

    Im thinking of busting maps into smaller mini maps, to reduce the lag and keep the quality up. Finding a way to shrink and retain quality seems to be the issue.

    I have uploaded the map just for grins. Its Catacombs of Wrath from RotR PF adventure for anyone wanting to borrow; I created in CC3+.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,443
    Likes Received:
    140
    You should be able to squeeze that down to 3mb or less, pretty easy.. the map area on that is pretty small. If image quality is your issue, increase the DPI at a smaller resolution. just my 2 coppers, but for the size (area) of that map 10 mb is way over the top end.. I was expecting to see a single sleeve of a super dungeon :)

    Tho here's the thing, that could easy be broken up into smaller pieces.

    here's an example with 80% compression, scaled to 25px per square rather than 50.. so it comes in at 233kb rather than the 2.52mb of the original. as you can see, we didn't loose very much quality at all, but gained a massive usability bonus. Also, I did that super fast, just as an example.. had I taken more time and done it more cleanly, it would be almost unnoticeable that it was different.

    example-map-cut.jpg

    here's the original cut from your image

    example-map-cut-org.jpg

    Just looking at the original whole image in the other post you did, I can see natural image areas that could easily be made to break that map up into 4 sections or so, if really had to do so (required the high res)..
     
    #4 Wesley Gorby, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  5. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    9
    You can also reduce the file size of the image with no loss of quality, and no noticeable difference to the players by using a solid color for the areas the players will not be able to see - understating the JPG image model, less colors and more solid areas will decrease the file size. This image is 3.4MB, with no drop of dpi. Should result in a significant improvement in play-ability. I'm sure you can do even better, as this was a 30 second fix.

    CatacombsofWrath_modified.jpg
     
  6. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obviously, graphics arent my thing. I'm more of a coder/admin guy, but several things to consider here.

    Thank you gents.
     
  7. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Down to 2.1MB while retaining most of the quality, using techniques described above. Worked like a champ guys! Catacombs of Wrath2.jpg
     
  8. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    New question...After further refinement, I was able to get the above map down to a 901KB file, but I am wondering if d20pro is more concerned with the uncompressed size. At 901KB, the file is still 34.3MB uncompressed. Is it the uncompressed size which I should be most concerned or disk size? Im starting to lean on the former based on lag testing.
     
  9. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,443
    Likes Received:
    140
    I was referring to JPG compression .. I usually use somewhere between 80-90% original image. Image file size on disk is the relevant issue here.
     
  10. TwistedTechMike

    TwistedTechMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the update! Looks like I should be good going forward then!
     
  11. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    9
    Just to provide a complete answer.. here it is...

    As @Krilion_GD stated "Image file size on disk is the relevant issue here."... This is true for the speed at which the image is transferred to the players, therefore will have a smoother transition between maps and such. And the overall original post and topic.

    The uncompressed image size is basically how much RAM will be used on the GM's computer and on each of the player's computers respectfully. As technology grows and it becomes less and less expensive to own more advanced computers this might be an old topic. Though, if you have a huge map and it's uncompressed image file is 900MB, you may have players who only see "a black map" as some may not have enough RAM allocated to Java/D20PRO to support the map image and all the token images all at once.
     
  12. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    5
    We are also experiencing lags(players tell me they moved their char, but then it goes back to the original location, and then 3-10 secs afterward it finally moves to the destination, then another 3 secs more and the light moves) and connection issues sometimes when using the new networking(they get disconnected). Yet, all is fine when using tcp/ip. Does the new networking uses a central server that might become overloaded?
     
  13. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,443
    Likes Received:
    140
    there seems to be some new lag beast with 3.7 and the new networking method.
     

Share This Page