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About the visible monster health

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Thurgian, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    1st let me state that I absolutely love the option to hide the damage done to mobs.

    My players, however, don't; and not, perhaps, for the reason one might think (reduces their ability to metagame the encounter).

    The cleric found herself rather frustrated that she no longer had the ability to quickly judge the health of her teammates. She reasoned "While I might not know enough about these creatures, to determine when they are nearly dead - These people, I know them well. Surely our years of close association, or at the very least the fact that we speak the same language - should give me some clue as the health of my allies"

    Ultimately, we got through the evening - with the players spending a lot of OOC (Out of Character) time - talking about hit points. (We normally avoid that kind of thing).

    While, like I said, I am pleased with the new option, I promised the Cleric (my wife) that I would pass along her concerns to the team.
     
    #1 Thurgian, Dec 21, 2010
  2. djc664

    djc664 Member

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    Interesting topic...
    The HP is visible to every creature that you are the owner of. I run with all the player's owned by my Game Table client, so the players around the physical table can move those and I take care of the rest with the laptop at the GM station. We had a player connect remotely this past game, and found that we couldn't see his HP and visa-versa, so that's how I know how it works. :)

    I think allowing an additional check box in Options to let the Team Party see each other's HP would be a good way to implement that idea.

    Rules-wise, every game is different and being able to know exactly how hurt anyone is typically is handled in the system itself. In 3.5 & Pathfinder, you don't know that information regardless of how well you know people. You need a spell or Heal check to learn the information. To play devil's advocate with your wife (playing a cleric is near and dear to my heart - I've run two of them from 1st to 18th since 3.5), highly trained and experienced doctors and medical staff miss injuries or the extent of them all the time, especially if there are layers of clothing in the way (not to even think of armor? travel gear? cloaks? Orcs trying to kill you while you do it?). That's the reason a Heal check is needed to learn that information. That check represents the PC really investigating the wounds and moving stuff aside. I could appreciate her point to get a percentage of damage in quarter ranges (he's 25% of max, 75% of max, etc.) at a glance, but down to the HP? That's a very generous GM.

    Now, that said... A happy wife = a happy life. :)
     
    #2 djc664, Dec 21, 2010
  3. Daggeth

    Daggeth New Member

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    Great suggestion Thurgian, I've passed this along to the devs.
     
    #3 Daggeth, Dec 21, 2010
  4. ogexam

    ogexam Member

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    Thoughts here:

    How about a tiered approach to showing HP damage with the following levels for the players:
    No creatures show damage
    Only creatures you own show damage
    Creatures you own and creatures on the same team (color border)
    All creatures show damage
     
    #4 ogexam, Dec 21, 2010
  5. djc664

    djc664 Member

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    This is how I interpreted this list:
    Assumed Override- all characters show damage to GM at all times.

    No creatures show damage (so you can't even see your own HP without hovering / clicking on your character sheet)
    Only creatures you own show damage (mirrors how this works with the current "hide damage from others" option checked)
    Creatures you own and creatures on the same team (color border)
    All creatures show damage (original style before this update)

    If this is true, I say Awesomesauce.
     
    #5 djc664, Dec 21, 2010
  6. Fkewlb

    Fkewlb New Member

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    Here's a trick you can do if you want your HP showing for PC's and not for you mobs

    Active showing red bars of damage
    and change the hit points like this
    Goblin 14/14 hps -> Goblin 14/1 hps

    Until he hits under 1 , the red bar will not appear

    I use this technique to show when foes are bloodied (in 4e) so i change the foes HP's foe like i explained (ex. 100/50) and as soon as the red bars start showing (like at 48/50) i change the total HP back to normal (ex. 48/100)

    I keep the Real total HP in the "Hit Dice" section for easy reference when i change the foes HP total
     
    #6 Fkewlb, Dec 22, 2010
  7. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    I have used this method and it does work.

    However, it does have the following drawbacks.

    Each and every monster has to be additionally customized (not huge, because every mob has to be customized in the first place)

    Monsters that heal, can't be healed - without activating "Temporary Hit Points" (Which might invoke some rule conflicts)

    Monsters that regenerate (Like Trolls) refuse to regenerate as long as their current HP are above their maximum HP.

    Monster health is also hidden from the DM

    Trust me, having your boss-mob die, because it is late (therefore you aren't on top of remembering all of the details, like heals don't work properly)and all of the heals it has received were ineffective, can really ruin an encounter. Or Mob-X doesn't use his special ability when bloodied (because you can't see that he is bloodied) .....

    I won't say that the D20pro folks added the hide monster HP feature because I asked them too; but I can honestly say that I pestered them quite often about it.

    Having dealt with all of the above listed problems, and having actively campaigned for the "Hide HP" feature, I am ecstatic that I now have one less issue to track.
     
    #7 Thurgian, Dec 23, 2010
  8. thraxxis

    thraxxis Member

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    Hail and well met Thurgian, djc664, Fkewlb,

    Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions on how to show (or not show) damage to creatures. Expect an improvement in an upcoming release. Once we've refined our ideas some we'll post here to gather feedback before finalizing.
     
    #8 thraxxis, Jan 3, 2011
  9. AnonGemini

    AnonGemini New Member

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    How about increased visual Blood Spatter on the PC/Monster token to represent health. Only gives you a rough idea rather than a meta-gamey Green/Amber/Red health bar which is my second choice.
     
    #9 AnonGemini, Feb 14, 2011
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