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Newb very confused with visability

Discussion in 'General Questions & Installation Support' started by Apsalar, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Apsalar

    Apsalar New Member

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    I've been reading forum posts for awhile now and I've checked out tutorials, but I am just not getting the hang of this. I can't seem to sort out the differences between walls, masks, and edges and how to set them up. Here's my understanding:
    • Walls are used to prevent light and token line-of-sight. So, if I have a room with a light source, that light will not bleed into other areas through a wall even if both masks are revealed.
    • Masks create fog of war over areas. Masks can be revealed manually or by token movement.
    • Edges are for things like doors and pillars and prevent line of sight (i.e. they cast shadows) but still allow the object to be seen.
    I realize this may be part of my problem, so if my understanding of any of these pieces is wrong, please tell me.

    So, with that understanding, I'm trying to make what I think is a simple map. The problem is, walls seem to be stopping all visibility - even for tokens with a light source. I've tried using some of the advice I've seen on the threads, but nothing seems to work.

    I'm using version 3.6.11 and I have attached my map. I would appreciate any help. I'm sure I've just got it set up wrong, but I just can't seem to figure it out on my own. (I'm coming from a lot of MapTools experience, which could be messing up my understanding of how it all works in d20pro.)

    Second Question: How do you handle creatures with darkvision and/or low-light vision?
     

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  2. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    Toggle the light for PCs that have lowlight/darkvision to 'private' so only they can see their own light.

    As to you grasp of walls/edges/masks seems you have it pretty solid at least in theory.

    I went over the map, and correct enough to get you on the right track, but I was extremely short on time.. so, it's not the prettiest job.
     

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  3. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    The biggest thing to remember is that a closed wall is a solid object, not a donut. also passive mask work like the old FOW system, no light required (simple on/off switch) where as interactive still requires toggling on/off, but in either state require a light be present.
     
  4. Apsalar

    Apsalar New Member

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    First off, thanks Krilion! I really appreciate your help. I've been messing with the map you fixed for me and I have some follow-up questions. I'm sure you don't have time to hold my hand through all of this. So, any help you can give me, even piecemeal over time, is fine.
    1. I see that you added quite a few walls. While everything now works the way I imagined it would, I don't understand what you did that make sit work. Some of your wall segments look like strait lines not connected to anything, which frankly baffles me. I saw something in an older video tutorial about juggling line segments around to leave a single line sprouting off a wall polygon to the outer border of the map. Is that the step I missed?
    2. I've been reviewing shadow casting object types and based on the description, it sounds like what I was using walls for might make more sense to use edges for. I may (probably am) reading that wrong, though.
    3. I used paint to place the doors. However, the doors were auto revealing whenever I got a token anywhere near them. I have changed the rules so that tokens have to get permission from the GM to reveal areas, but that's not really my preference. I feel like it's another piece I'm not using properly. Instead of painting doors, will placing an "edge" rectangle in the door area be a better solution?
    4. I've figured out how assign private light sources. Is there a way to save those light settings to the creature token? For example, the PC dwarf onto a map, will I have to manually add darkvision light to him through the Light menu each new map? I don't see a way to do that in the creature dialog box.
    Again, thanks for your help!

    Edit: Okay, I just saw a newer video tutorial. With regards to question #1, it looks like I was thinking of walls in the wrong way. I was thinking of them as objects to enclose my visible map. It looks like they are actually used to hedge out the non-visible portions of the map, leaving the visible parts open for use. Is that a more correct understanding?
     
    #4 Apsalar, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  5. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Here's a crude example of how I lay out walls for a room.
    walls.png
    Starting at position one and going around to position 6, leaving an open space for the door. To complete the wall, I retrace my steps until I'm back at position 1. This completes the wall without enclosing the room.

    You need a minimum of 3 nodes to "complete" a wall

    You can also do partial walls. This also works when putting down edges.
    segment.png
    The order of placing nodes would be 1, 2, 3, 2, 4, and then 1 to complete.

    I hope these examples help.

    "
    1. I used paint to place the doors. However, the doors were auto revealing whenever I got a token anywhere near them. I have changed the rules so that tokens have to get permission from the GM to reveal areas, but that's not really my preference. I feel like it's another piece I'm not using properly. Instead of painting doors, will placing an "edge" rectangle in the door area be a better solution?"
    An edge for a door wouldn't be a good idea. You can always "reveal" the masks ahead of time and use the doors and walls to block vision. hen you only have the reveal notification for doors.

    "
    1. I've figured out how assign private light sources. Is there a way to save those light settings to the creature token? For example, the PC dwarf onto a map, will I have to manually add darkvision light to him through the Light menu each new map? I don't see a way to do that in the creature dialog box."
    If you use the "move to map" selection to transfer a token to a new map, it will retain its tethered light.

    (EDIT: Combimed my posts.)
     
    #5 Tay-Dor, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  6. Apsalar

    Apsalar New Member

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    Thanks Tay-Dor! Are you using closed or open walls in those two examples?
     
  7. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    Would imply he is using 'Closed' walls.
    If you use 'Open' walls there is no need to ' ..retrace my steps back to position one.'
     
  8. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    that is spot on correct.
     
  9. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    I thought that was an open wall because the wall wasn't completely enclosing an area.
     
  10. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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  11. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    When T put in the 'Open/Closed' selector there in the tools options, there is no longer any need to do 'retracing'.
     
  12. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    example with lights.

    upload_2017-1-23_17-32-5.png

    upload_2017-1-23_17-32-36.png

    upload_2017-1-23_17-32-59.png

    upload_2017-1-23_17-33-37.png
     
  13. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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  14. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Ah, completely missed that. Awesome! Will save me a lot of time.
     
  15. Apsalar

    Apsalar New Member

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    I just wanted to check back and tell Krillion and Tay-Dor thanks again. I feel like I'm getting the hang of things now. I still think I'm doing doors wrong because if I have player movement set to auto reveal, doors vanish if they get anywhere near them. So, for the time being, I'm manually revealing everything.

    I think I still prefer the way MapTools handles light/shadows, but d20Pro has a lot of other features I want to experiment with.

    Thanks again, guys! I really appreciate your help.
     
    Tay-Dor likes this.
  16. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
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    glad to have helped out. :)
     
  17. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    No, you aren't doing doors wrong. Auto-reveal reveals everything (grrr...). What you can do when you put players on a map is make all the masks visible and rely on your doors to block lights for rooms. Saves on the constant notification every time someone moves. I did put a request to separate doors out from the auto-reveal functions, so someday...:)
     
  18. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    hehe. salt + wound = tay-dor sad.

    I'll try to have the door auto reveal as a new option in the GM Options in the upcoming public beta.
     
  19. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Its okay Owlbear. Just spreading the word that that request is out there. I have faith in you guys delivering when you can. :)
     
  20. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    As to the comment earlier about map tools style vs D20PRO style. The reason we opted to not just use straight lines to box out areas (which can still do) is that it's way to easy to end up with a hole.

    I was running a game once on Map Tools and has spent ages building out this whole labyrinth with FoW and shadow casting. Then, a player lands in a partial square and boom, the whole map reveals... letting them see that the dragon and her princess captor were only one wall away from the starting chamber.

    One adamantine maul later and a lot less traps and adventure time we had a rescued dragon and sad GM -- the Princess got what she deserved ;)
     

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