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Subdual/Nonlethal Damage

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Nighteagle, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Nighteagle

    Nighteagle New Member

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    I've been evaluating D20 Pro for the last several days to use with my gaming group. We have previously used Klooge, but found it often too complex, frequently broken, and prone to breaking down in the middle of a gaming session. I've liked what I've seen of D20 Pro so far, but I noticed there seems to be no way to track subdual/nonlethal damage. I see that I can label at damage type as subdual, but it still applies it to the character like normal damage.

    At a minimum, could there be a place to keep track of subdual/nonlethal damage? Currently, it looks as though I would need to write it down somewhere as a seperate note while playing.

    A little more complicated--Is there any possibility of adding an "unconscious" state (as opposed to the red skull bleeding to death state) that would significant unconscious, but not bleeding to death (as would happen due to subdual damage)? This would have to be evaluated as adding the subdual and normal damage numbers together and comparing to result to total hit points.

    Thank you,
    Nighteagle
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Member

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    That sounds do-able. I'll pass this request on and see if we can work it into a future build.
     
  3. Nighteagle

    Nighteagle New Member

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    Just thought I would re-emphasize my desire for a way to hand nonlethal/subdual damage (which is in both 3.5 and Pathfinder), since I had to deal with it in my game last night.

    My Suggestions:
    1. There is already a weapon descriptor for "subdual", so the system can already take into account weapons that always deal subdual damage.
    2. You could add a check box to the attack window to indicate "subdual attack", this check box would change the weapon damage to subdual for that attack only, and apply the -4 modifier to the attack roll that comes with using a regular damage weapon to make a subdual attack.
    2. You would need to add a box for "Subdual Damage" on the character sheet that could keep a running total of the subdual damage taken.
    3. Healing effects heal an equal amount of regular and subdual damage, so any healing would reduce the amount of subdual damage taken, in addition to increasing current hit points.
    4. You would need a "behind the scenes" line of code that would keep track of/evaluate "subdual damage" + "regular damage" total. If the "subdual damage" + "regular damage" total exceeds Total HP, then character is "Unconscious", which would need a different state marker than the current skull and red color over the character icon (perhaps the "held" state, which is what I used last night, or a different one could be created).

    Please let me know if this would be doable and possible to include in a future release,
    Nighteagle
     
  4. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    I can only offer help on the "display" portion.

    While I forget, off the top of my head, what it is called - there is a right click "Visual" that you can utilize, that places "Chains" on the character/mob.

    For record keeping, it is probably just easiest to do it in note format (for now). However, it is possible that you can make invisible copies of your players and track subdual damage on the copies ....

    When it is your players that are getting subdued, it is pretty straight forward - you have your monster make the attack against the copy. If your players are the ones performing the subdual, it is more complex as you either have to subtract damage from one mob and apply it to another - or you have to "attack for the player". While I don't use the subual mechanic, I do "attack" for my players when they would hit a monster they can't see.

    Range isn't an issue here, as D20pro doesn't enformce range or movement restrictions. So i normally keep my "invisible" players in a specific location, and don't worry myself about making sure the invisible copy is moving appropriately.
     
  5. Nighteagle

    Nighteagle New Member

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    I used the hold icon last time, and that served as a good visual reminder to the characters. I think that for now I'll use the hit dice text box as a place to manually keep track of nonlethal/subdual damage, having it on the same page as the hit points will at least allow me to do a quick visual check and determine if subdual/nonlethal is greater than currrent hit points, and the character will fall unconscious.
     
  6. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    This is a serious issue for many d20 systems.. There should be a way in d20pro to manage this..

    Myself.. I'd like to see a drop box on the GM screen that pops up for attack resolution.. where we could select it as a subdual/nonleathal attack.. and then have a corresponding set of boxes on the character record as it does for hitpoints.. for which it would deduct the points for the aforementioned attack
     
  7. ChrisRevocateur

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    I'm posting in support of a Nonlethal damage tracking option.
     
  8. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    HEAR HEAR! :)
     
  9. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    this has been on the list for a while... Mar 01, 2010 ...

    It is a core element of the game and lacking this is a huge drawback to d20pro..
     
  10. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Fixing Subdual/NonLeathal damage tracking is a good thing to fix......



    But I'd rather see Map Thumnails first. :)
     
  11. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    One is a nicety, the other is mechanically intrinsic to the game!!
     
  12. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Well this nicety has been passed up for "mechanically intrinsic" features more times than i can count.......The big question is, will they continue to do so repeatedly or will they finally give in and make "Map Thumbnails" a reality?..........

    There will always be some function of D20pro that needs fixing.......No software is perfect........So maybe the "Mechanically intrinsic" feature could be shoved aside for just a little bit to realize an "Aesthetic improvement" feature.
     
  13. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    Core elements should ALWAYS trump fluff! .. it is coding/design project law!! <chuckle>

    intrinsic or intrinsical (ɪnˈtrɪnsɪk) of or relating to the essential nature of a thing; inherent
    vs
    fluff (flʌf) an object, matter, etc, of little importance; trifle

    which should win, omg, this -is- a tough one...
     
  14. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    I personally have over 375 Battlemaps.

    A simple 5 - 10 word description just doesn't cut it when dicerning one map from another.

    Especially when there are so many of them.


    And I use D20Pro for this:

    [​IMG]

    My game table.

    So I use D20Pro for projecting my Battlemaps onto the game table.

    The many cool aspects about projecting D20Pro onto the game table is that I can:
    --Project the battlemaps for use with miniatures.
    --Place spell templates onto the map.
    --place creatures tokens onto the map.
    --Place item tokens onto the map.
    --Place map tiles onto the map.
    --Fog of War.
    --Placing spell gif animations from some of the old baldurs gate games and icewind dale games (Which is very cool and I highly reccommend)
    --Placing creature gif animations from some of the old baldurs gate games and icewind dale games (Which, again, is very cool and I highly reccommend)



    So i take advantage of a good chunk of D20Pro's features........Just not features like keeping track of effects and conditions.

    We all have laptops at the game table so we use HERO-LAB for keeping track of those things. (HERO-LAB is awesome.......BUY IT.......BUY IT NOW!!!) :D :D
     
  15. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    so... you're obnoxious -and- rich... I get it...
     
  16. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Not rich......I'm a blue collar guy who built it with my own two hands and over a 3 year span so I afforded paying for it a little at a time.

    No need for you to be a turd about it.

    How am I being obnoxious?........I'm merely stating my opinion.
     
  17. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    So... While I like each of you to post more often on the forums, throwing adjectives isn't the way...

    Both non-lethal damage handling and map thumbnails with summary info are on the list of future features. Both features will reduce frustrations to speed up game preparation and/or game play. And, that's what I would look for in recommending feature upgrades or new features that d20Pro should have (reduce frustrations and to speed up game preparation and game play).

    Perhaps someone should post (in a new thread) what "things" (aka features) you would love to have that would reduce your game preparation time and game playing time (other than the spells and effects system). Then give us some background on the method you are using to accomplish your goal and then suggest how it could work.
     
  18. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    <hangs head> Yeah, I know better... I'm sorry Curtis...
     
  19. Kotawolf

    Kotawolf Member

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    While I would agree on some points... And with that many makes I can see where you might run into problems. I'm at a few dozen maps right now, and find naming them for the group-encounter-etc tends to work for me. How many maps will you use in a single session or in 3 sessions?

    Sure it takes more work, and having the thumbnails would help. But, yes things that make the game play go more smoothly should be first. Fixing the Subdual damage would be a nice thing to get fixed. The spell system rebuild will be very welcome.

    I'd like to see where it would auto link class skills to each class...like in Pathfinder it would auto add the misc +3 to all class skills...

    Have Race on one of the screens.

    Have entry for languages... right now the work around it to make each language a skill...and put a rank in it if they have it...

    The other one I posted the other day... basically a group init... or something similar. When in a large group, allowing 2 or 3 people to all move at once the way that we could when were not playing across the internet really did speed things up...

    There are a lot of things that could be done.... but we need to prioritize what needs to be done... if they are possible.
     
  20. daytripper68

    daytripper68 New Member

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    Another vote for implementing proper nonlethal damage tracking.
     

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