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Yet Another Map making software question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kinwolf, Jul 28, 2015.

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  1. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Somewhat related to my other question about importing maps...

    I'm working on the side on a sci-fi campaign created from scratch using the Stars Without Number ruleset. I've already done alot of mapping on paper and I was ready to start putting it in digital form.

    So I did an extensive search about software to create maps and battlemaps, and came out of it totally depressed and frustrated.

    My criteria where:

    1- Usable by me, an IT guy, not a CAD or photoshop person.
    2- Supported of course, with a nice community

    And that's it, youd' think it would be easy. But when you do a search most threads about map making software date from the 2010 era , yikes!

    But most recommended dundjinni or cc3 so I researched those

    dundjinni: Dead software, but I was ready to overlook this since it's described as having a good community. But, from the look of it, you have a 50/50 chance of the checkout process not working when you try to buy it from the website, as the owner is MIA since forever. It also won't run on OS after windows 7 and the output format seems proprietary(?) so since I plan to move to windows 10 this year, I'm not interested in even trying to buy it.

    CC3 : Unanimous that you'll create gorgeous maps and battlemaps with this... if you know CAD software. If not, good luck with the learning curve.(as mentionned, I am not a CAD person. I deploy autocad on workstations, I don't use it :p)

    A bunch of free online tools where also mentionned and I did check out many of those, but they were horribly limited and seemed abandoned midway through development.

    Any cues, lead, help?
     
    #1 kinwolf, Jul 28, 2015
  2. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    Uhm, it is a tough road to find something that works for you, I went through this myself. You will also notice that the demands and requirements for your criteria change over time; this also presents a challenge.. The best thing to remember here is, take a deep breathe and say to yourself "There is no spoon." <chuckle>

    as to;

    DJ: it is way outdated and just a tile editor. You can do the same thing within d20Pro. Just start collecting tiles, we have a bunch on the Marketplace. There are also huge web archives of tiles for free on the sites mentioned by Curtis in the other thread, as well as other sites around the web.

    CC#: I totally hear you on this, over the years I have tried several times to use CC3. I always end up needing a bottle of Tylonal and walk away in frustration.

    GIMP (or Photoshop) are probably the best tools out there at the end of the day.
     
    #2 Wesley Gorby, Jul 28, 2015
  3. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    Hi kinwolf,

    I've went through the same thing. And actually own both DJ and CC plus extras. DJ has it's own limitations being almost 10 years old with no updates and has less than appealing license agreement for created maps. CC does have a high learning curve and rendering time suffers.

    My opinion is same as Krilion_GD, when we create maps, it's using Photoshop and texture images and object images (either created or got with CC or community).

    If you don't have access to Photoshop, GIMP is really good too. Just create multiple layers, paste one layer with one type of stone texture, then the top layer with another type of stone texture. Show the Grid, use 50 pixels per square, then use the rectangle select tool (or freehand if you want a more natural feel instead of worked stone) to drag out your halls and rooms, then press delete on the top layer. Then you have your basic dungeon all created. If you want to get more fancy, add in a shadow layer and darken the areas around the cut out pattern (rooms and halls). If you want to get more fancy add in objects (find top-down graphics online and place them each into their own layer (so you can duplicate and move them around). Then once you're done export a flattened and compressed JPG to use.
    Note: for space ships use top layer of a dark metal, and lower layer of a lighter metal. Or pick what looks right for the situation. Can use top layer as a wood texture, then lower layer as carpet texture for a modern house, etc.

    You could also build your maps inside d20Pro, basically use image tiles and stamp them to create your dungeon or building. This option is very briefly outlined http://www.d20pro.com/help/UGGMDrawTools.php , I'll most likely expand on this with a video after GenCon.
     
    #3 edwardcd, Jul 28, 2015
  4. Whirlingdervish

    Whirlingdervish Member

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    #4 Whirlingdervish, Jul 28, 2015
  5. bssutton27

    bssutton27 Member

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    I have had really great success with Dundjinni. I own both CC3 and Dundjinni and like you found the CAD aspect of CC3 a little overwhelming.

    I have remade just about every Rappan Athuk map for my own campaign with it; you can see examples here,

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1yemjmigy464 ... hFuQa?dl=0 .

    I use GIMP to create a transparent copy of the pdf map and then import that into Dundjinni to trace. Once the trace is complete I go back and add the detail and objects.
     
    #5 bssutton27, Jul 28, 2015
  6. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Wow, nice maps there! But since I'm updating to windows 10 soon, I can't take a chance with Dundjinni if it won't install.

    Thanks all, I guess I'll try working with photoshop, I have an older version that I use to do small simple retouch to images for websites I maintain. I was hoping for a tool that would help do maps a bit faster but it seems my research were torough.

    After reading edwardcd post, I went back to D20pro last night to try the tile stamping, and it work pretty nicely indeed. Good to know!

    I'm also keeping an eye on otherworldmapper in the hope that it solve some of our mapping problems.
     
    #6 kinwolf, Jul 29, 2015
  7. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Update: I missed fractal mapper from Whirlingdervish post, so I checked it out today and did some research.

    Again, most threads on the internet about it date from 2010(did the mapping community stopped after 2011? *wonder*) but it's still updated and has learning videos on youtube that are recent. It's described as less powerful than CC3 but more easy to learn. So, seeing it on DTRPG at a small discount I took the plunge and will try it over the next few weeks.
     
    #7 kinwolf, Jul 29, 2015
  8. Whirlingdervish

    Whirlingdervish Member

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    Fractal mapper is easy to use one of the things i love about it is the scenario builder each object you drop on the map you can add both player and DM notes and make your own adventure all in one place
     
    #8 Whirlingdervish, Jul 29, 2015
  9. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    I installed fractal mapper tonight, imported a bunch of objects and then watched the first 3 tutorials videos and 1 made by another person which was about making dungeons instead of overland map, and then I started building a battlemap to test it out myself.

    I did the first room, with furnitures and shadows, in about 30 mins, while getting used to the interface. It went pretty well! Of course, that first room is going to have to be totally redone because I did all that work unknowingly on the bottom layer, so I can't define anything under it to work with textures in small part of the floor. ugh. But I like it, pretty nifty so far :)
     
    #9 kinwolf, Jul 29, 2015
  10. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Any recommended tutorial for gimp? I'd like to try it to compare to fractal mapper. I did a search but they all seem to be for old version of gimp where the menus/functions are differents enough that's it's pretty confusing.
     
    #10 kinwolf, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  11. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Can you explain this a little more?

    Trial and error worked for me. But yes, use of multiple layers for objects is key.
     
    #11 Tay-Dor, Nov 15, 2016
  12. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    #12 Tay-Dor, Nov 16, 2016
  13. Bloodwolf

    Bloodwolf Member

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    Even though I like the basic idea of Dundjinni I never used it myself. Personally I use CC3 for nearly all of my maps and have for several years. I agree that there is a very large amount of controls to learn with CC3 but in reality for most maps you aren't going to use most of them. And a quick search will yield up a bunch of videos to help get everything from the basics to the more advanced stuff. Another nice thing is that many of the community made tiles for Dundjinni can be downloaded and used in CC3.

    The biggest thing with CC3 is figuring out the different sets to know what time is where. The basic layout of the maps; river, roads, coast lines, walls, and such; are created with draw tools like a CAD but most of the dropped items; whole buildings, interior items, individual trees, individual mountains, and such; are actually tiles just like Dundjinni.

    Just a bit of info on how CC3 works.
     
    #13 Bloodwolf, Nov 16, 2016
  14. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    There are good gimp tutorials on youtube and such. Google Search

    There are some amazing demos and howto's on Googl+, I'll see if I can dig those up..
     
    #14 Wesley Gorby, Nov 16, 2016
  15. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Thanks, I read the first link last night and tried it, very formative. I also started watching a youtube video I found but stopped after the 453 "eeuumm" which was about after 3 mins :p I did bookmark a couple more though.

    I've been using FM8 since last year but I find it's "finishing tools" like bevels, shadowing, etc to be bad compared to maps I see out there. So I'm redoing another round of trying gimp. A friend also bought CC3 last year and offered me to try it out after gimp. Says it's easier to use since the CC3+ update so I'll check this out too now.
     
    #15 kinwolf, Nov 17, 2016
  16. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Hmm, I might have to rethink my stance toward CC3+. This is the first map I quickly wiped up after doing the tutorials. Kinda liked the experience and the result after all! The only thing I'm struggling with is adding localized directional light source, like adding them inside the fireplace and fixing the candle in the room. Not sure if it can be done yet.
    Castle Triumph_Floor 1.JPG
     
    #16 kinwolf, Nov 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  17. Bloodwolf

    Bloodwolf Member

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    I usually don't worry to much with light sources because I tend to try to us D20Pro for my lighting.
     
    #17 Bloodwolf, Nov 20, 2016
    Tay-Dor and kinwolf like this.
  18. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Here's a recent map I did in GIMP. Its an 80 x 80 square map and the picture I uploaded is 1/5 actual size. Its where the foothills run into the mountains.

    EnterMountains.png
     
    #18 Tay-Dor, Nov 21, 2016
  19. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    A beauty! Just looking at it I can picture an ambush from above, and Thri-Kreen warriors popping out of the sand behind the PC's to prevent any retreat. :D
     
    #19 kinwolf, Nov 21, 2016
  20. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

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    Good point. I wonder if it would be a big performance hit to do the lightning with D20Pro light system. It's mostly for the realism effect in any case.
     
    #20 kinwolf, Nov 21, 2016
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