4E Tweaks

Greetings, All!

Muddling my way through running 4e encounters with d20Pro. Having read the tips here in the forums, and Dan's suggestions on the Wiki, I find that I have an alternate way of conducting 4e combat to offer up.

Here's the scoop: (I was using this scenario to teach my son how to do combat in d20Pro)

I created a basic encounter with 4 stock goblins. On the good guys side, we have a Level 1 Dragonborn Warlord which was created in Character Builder and imported (imports as a level 1 4th Ed, and yes, I have the newest classes.txt I could find). We'll call our Dragonborn hero "Bob", and his opponents "Gobbo1" through "Gobbo4".

Notice that when we import a character from CB, their Powers are listed on the Attacks tab *AND* the Abilities tab.This become quite relevant in a bit.

In combat, the player right clicks Bob's token and chooses Attack. He is presented with a list of Bob's possible attacks, including Powers. Let's choose White Raven Onslaught. The Dm is presented with the confirmation dialog, choosing whether the attack hit or missed. We'll say it hit.. the DM clicks the appropriate button, the damage is applied and life is good, right? Not so fast... if we look at the Mini window for Bob's Abilities, we see that White Raven Onslaught did NOT decrement. Indeed, even if I manually decrement the uses count, the player can continue to choose WRO every round! In the Wiki, the suggestion is that for these attack-related powers, to program them as attacks and to NOT make an Ability entry for them... but as I emntioned, this does not track the uses count; you'll have to do that manually.

Conversely, if the player right clicks the token and chooses Abilities, and then chooses WRO (if it wasnt deleted), their Decision Window pops open for them to choose the target. They choose a target, confirm, and it goes off to the Dm's screen for confirmation and damage is applied. *problem* - Bob never rolled an attack.. in this fashion the damage is automatically applied! Note also that the Effect field on our freshly imported Warlord is "inert". The player can click in the Effect field and choose the appropriate settings, then click to target, then apply.. and the next time the power is used, the effect is back to Inert!

Here's the solution:
Pre-game, I import the character from CB. Edit in Library. After fixing the Class field, *delete* all power-based attacks from the Attacks tab. Then, in the Abilities tab, edit each power to apply the correct effect (in this case, the Attack tab under effects does not work) Select the Hit Point tab instead. Add a diced effect, in my case 3d8+2 and I picked Normal for the type.
Now, back to combat! The player right clicks the token, chooses Attack... all they see is the character's weapon-based attacks (and unarmed if you use such things). This is as it should be.. one can make weapon attacks over and over. The player chooses Abilities.. and the power-based attacks are still right there.. he chooses WRO again... and lo and behold, it already has the desired effect in the box (3d8+2 damage). he targets his opponent and confirms,
Now.. here's the tricky part (its easy, really). The Dm sees that Bob is using a power-based attack in his Decision window. All the Dm has to do is click the little green check mark a couple of times and Gobbo1 is dead meat. But, again, Bob hasn't actually rolled and attack! So, *THE DM* right clicks Bob's token, chooses Attack, picks the appropriate weapon attack, and BAM! there's the attack roll.. if it missed, the Dm clicks the Miss button and simply closes the Decision for the power-based attack. If it hit, the Dm closes the *Attack dialog* and confirms the power-based attack decision!! EASY! The DM confirms.. damage is applied to the enemy as one would expect... *and the uses is decremented* like we want! The WRO is also grayed out in the player's list (since WRO is a daily) and cant be chosen again until the DM re-increments the uses back to 1/1.

Using the above (which I know may be hard to understand in the way I wrote it), Power-based attacks cannot be exploited, they decrement properly and uses/day/encounter/whatever are enforced. Less work has to be done, since one doest have to manually add the effect each time the power is used.

Summary:
1. Import a character from CB
2. Ensure creature is NOT assigned to any maps, and is only in the Library.
2. In Library, fix the class (if necessary)
3. Remove non-weapon (power-based) attacks from the Attack tab.
4. Edit power-based attacks on the Ability tab by adding a "Hit Point" effect of the appropriate scope.
5. Drag the character onto a map, verify that the right-click menus for Attacks show only weapon attacks, and that the power-based attacks are all under Abilities, and come up with the correct effects.
6. In game, when the player uses a Power, the Dm gets a Decision rather than the standard combat roll dialog, alerting the DM that a Power is being used.
7. The DM resolves the attack roll privately - on miss, the miss is confirmed in the Attack dialog and the decision is dismissed. On a hit, the Attack dialog is dismissed and the Decision is confirmed, applying the effect of the power and decrementing it's uses.

To me, the above is faster and less cumbersome than the method described in the Wiki, plus it lets D20Pro track the usage of the Powers properly.

 

Thurgian,

Try this:
When editing the character's powers, in addition to setting the Hit Points section for damage, also set on the Attack tab the To Hit value (for example, +2). When you save the effect, you get a line that reads like: "to hit +2; d8 normal".
When the player uses this Power, the DM decision now contains the "to hit +2; d8 normal", reminding the DM that the attack is at +2 to hit.

I agree that some players dont like having their dice rolled for them. One could either make this a house rule (use a power and the Dm rolls for you) or... let them roll it! You've got the Power-use decision up in front of you, showing that Bob wants to use Wolfpack Tactics for a +2 to hit and d8 damage.. tell the player to now conduct an attack roll (right click their token, Attack, etc.). Once the Dm gets the attack dialog, the +2 is added and the Dm determines of the hit was successful.. if so, close the Attack dialog and use the Power Decision, etc... basically just like I described before, except let them roll if they want to roll.

As for your point on consuming a use for "reliable" powers on a miss.. also easy.. when you have the Decision in front of you, and you or the player have made an attack rolll which missed... click the wee "x" in the Effect field in the decision box.. and the effect changes from "to hit +2; d8 normal" to "inert". Apply it and it decrements the uses but doesnt do any damage (and doesnt change the default effect for that power either).

Please do let us know how this works for you in real-play. I'll be testing it more this afternoon myself.

Gerry

 

I didn't either until this morning. I've only been working with d20Pro for about a week now. After finally choosing d20Pro over Fantasy Grounds II, I've spent the last few days struggling to decide whether I want to go with 4e or Pathfinder. Being a purist, and having played D&D since 1974 (still have my 3 little brown booklets too!), I really like Pathfinder. Never got into Eberron, and I dont like what WotC has done to the Forgotten Realms, so again .. Pathfinder.

But.. if I stop trying to compare 4e to 3.5 or Pathfinder and think of it not as D&D but as a completely different game which happens to be named D&D... it's kind of intriguing to me. I do play WoW, and the similarities are obvious...

So, I'm still trying to decide which way to go. Today, I am experimenting with 4e settings and thought processes and came up with the ideas I mentioned earlier. Tomorrow, I'll be doing the same with Pathfinder.

I know I could play BOTH, too.. but my players are novices (most of them having never played any RPG), so I want to pick a system and stay with it for a long while, so as not to confuse the poor blighters any more than necessary.

I appreciate your feedback on my ideas.. it helps me solidify in my mind how I will approach shoehorning 4e into d20Pro if I should happen to choose 4e.

G

 

Played an encounter last night using my above recommendations.
Some observations upon reflection:
1. Each round, combat resolution got faster as we all got used to what we were doing. By the end of the encounter (a huge bar-fight), each persons turn was about what you'd get in a PnP game.
2. Dan is correct; adjustments to damage due to effects etc need to be manually processed
3. I have played it using Dan's method as well, and I feel like its a wash as far as complexity goes, but I think my method is a bit more speedy (unless I have to manually adjust damage every round).

Will I use this method or Dan's original?
Probably Dan's method because of the higher degree of accuracy. This was a fun experiment, and may still be useful in the future.

G