1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

5th Edition work progress

Discussion in 'D&D 5th Edition' started by owlbear, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    Hi folks, I'm going to use this thread in 5e to talk about the progress we're making and post UI ideas that we're considering.

    The first topic is an Advantage/Disadvantage toggle. The concept is to have a global toggle which allows a Player or GM to make rolls with either Advantage or Disadvantage.

    AD Toggle Proof.gif

    Right now this is just mocked up -- you see the application log on the left and the menu toggle on the right.

    The new toggle is a three state button with Red AD being disabled, and green button states for A and D (colored orange and light green the same as AD rolls in the game log).

    The question to all of you is simply this -- do you want to see a global AD toggle like this one or a per action toggle which you have to trigger when making a skill check, saving throw or attack roll?

    Both is also a valid answer here. Also, below is a preview of the new Declare Attacks pane. This sets the flow better for new and existing users (also open to discussion).

    upload_2016-11-10_15-31-31.png

    Keep in mind that an AD check is not as necessary for this pane as the resolve pane for a GM looks like this for 5e now.

    upload_2016-11-10_15-34-8.png

    The AD roll replaces the crit confirm value on the resolution pane. Note, the resolve attack buttons along the bottom still need to be reworked for 5e.

    Thoughts? Feedback?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    I think a hybrid. A global for using skills/saves and core dice. Then include a toggle button on the "declare attacks" pane (for when the player knows if it applies) and a toggle on the Resolve Attacks pane for when the GM knows about an advantage or disadvantage that the player may not know about.

    I like the layout of the declare attack pane. Easy to follow.

    What drugs do we need to pump into you to get this out faster? I want it!
     
  3. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    We can add a toggle to the Attack pane easily enough, however, does it actually _do_ anything at that point?

    My thought is that you take the four buttons on the attack pane which are currently:

    miss, hit, crit threat (hit), critical hit

    and turn them into:

    miss, hit, hit (a/d), critical hit.

    We could even break the hit (a/d) button into two buttons without much trouble.

    Output would for the various options would read something like the following (keep in mind die roll numbers can still be hidden by the GM):

    Miss:
    <ctr> rolls a <die with number> <attack type> against <targets AC> and misses.

    Hit:
    <ctr> rolls a <die with number> <attack type> against <targets AC> and hits for <damage><damage type>.

    Hit (A/D):
    <ctr> rolls with Advantage/Disadvantage <die1 / die2 with number> <attack type> against <targets AC> and hits for <damage><damage type>.

    Crit:
    <ctr> rolls a <die with number> <attack type> against <targets AC> and CRITICALLY hits for <damage><damage type>.


    I forget the exact text, but this is a close enough approximation for the discussion.

    (totally okay with being wrong here too)
     
  4. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    No, you're right, don't really need an A/D for attacks, other than maybe just a reminder for the DM from the player?

    I have a Disadvantage/Advantage marker in my game. What would be cool is (with the Feature Library) if the marker would apply the A/D to the first submitted attack.

    advdis.png
     
    #4 Tay-Dor, Nov 10, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
  5. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    Got a suggestion from a player to have it always show both d20 rolls in the log after resolving an attack in case the DM forgot that there was advantage/disadvantage for a given situation. I've done that in my game a number of times.
     
  6. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    That's the plan. Anytime a roll is made with A/D both die will be included in the log.

    I completed updates to skills now as well. So Skills use a proficiency concept instead of a rank concept

    upload_2016-11-12_19-35-19.png

    Mod is total of prof bonus x #profs + ability modifier + miscellaneous modifiers

    #Prof is a number of times taken as proficient. This is to support the contested double (and more) proficiency optional rule.
    Misc is the total miscellaneous modifier currently being applied to a skill. This allows for spells, traits and items to augment a skill check.

    When a skill is initially add to the proficient list, it is given a proficiency (#Prof) value of 0. This is to allow for a class definition to assign skills which can be selected for proficiency to be added to the skills list during fresh character creation.

    We've left the global Penalty system for skills in place as it seems relevant even with the changes to skill checks. Clicking the die icon will roll the total skill mod as with 3.5. and Pathfinder skills. If the Advantage/Disadvantage toggle is enabled (see thread posts above) two dice will be rolled with the appropriate outcome -- this is not fully implemented but should be done fairly soon!

    Attacks will be the next topic resolved then I'll be returning to complete work on Traits and fix up the creature merging with traits issues. Traits will also be able to trigger special abilities in the very near future. Hopefully that will go live at the same time as the 5e updates!
     
  7. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    Hrm. I think it makes sense to maybe offer the GM an option to force player A/D toggles to be one use. This way folks who trust their players to only use it when needed are not penalized in situations where a player has A/D for all attacks/actions of a given type.

    Inspiration, on the other hand, is likely going to move to a status and clicking the check on the character sheet will grant the Inspiration status. Additionally, there will be a right click menu to grant inspiration to a character. However, because a player doesn't have to use inspiration right away, it still seems like the A/D toggle is the right mechanism to use it when the player decides they want too. The concept here being that a GM will be able to ask the player if that's what they're doing and untoggle their Inspiration (right click menu or remove the status using the mini-view).

    Other thoughts on when advantage/disadvantage should be applied and how?
     
  8. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    So will this will calculate based on the proficiency bonus from the general tab? That's cool.

    One other consideration is the Bard's "Jack of All Trades" ability which gives them 1/2 their proficiency bonus in any skill they aren't proficient in.
     
  9. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    Good point! I'll add a 1/2 prof option.

    So it'll read 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4 (3 & 4 is overkill, but maybe a magic item or other thing grants additional proficiency bonuses)
     
  10. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    Friend made a good point. It might be easier for users if instead of doing it numerically in the UI, change the name from #Prof to "Proficient?" (? is optional). Then have a drop box with the default "No". Other options would be "Half", "Yes", "Double" etc.

    This would match the verbiage and usage in the handbooks. It makes it easier to figure out for the users, especially for those who have a fear of numbers or math. Then you can set the coding where No = 0, Yes =1, Double = 2, etc.
     
  11. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    We'll get there. Right now we're going for low impact on the UI so as to not break more things than we have too. However, a recent update has opened up a world of UI options for us in the near future. System specific UI is now possible through some work I'm doing on the Rules API. I want to complete the spec for it before releasing the next beta because this will include some static entry points to change UI, action resolution, and a bunch of other things in the event handling which is not small.

    Once this is publicly available, we'll be able to replace the look and feel of a UI, like the character sheet, from within Java. We also have a full HTML5 access method which is getting another update to account for the new entry point handlers. Again, once it's available you'll be able to visualize creature data through the RESTful API which talks in JSON.

    i.e. for now, numbers are easy and non-numbers are certainly doable in a later pass.
     
  12. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    136
    YES! :)
     
  13. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    Isn't that the guy who went looking for the Golden Fleece with the ARGNAUTS?
     
  14. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    136
    now that would have been truly funny if you'd of said 'Augments' <snicker>
     
  15. kinwolf

    kinwolf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2014
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    Should we expect 5e goodness soon?
     
  16. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Community Manager
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    136
    5e work is progressing nicely, there is some finalization taking place, a bit of clean up, some foundation work for future material (based on said work) etc.. we are just as excited as you are, trust me... however I don't have any dates I can share yet.
     
  17. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
    Okay. so this is the first teaser of a soon-to-be announcement about the main system we've been building to support spells, abilities and rule systems for non-programmers (mostly).

    I'm tucking this into the 5e conversation as it plays a major part in the upcoming 5e tool set we're gearing up to launch.

    fireball node graph.PNG

    The image is of a fireball for 3.5 not 5th, but hey! It is still cool!

    So what you're seeing is a Node diagram solution for building complex effects. In the case of a Fireball, this graph creates a <class level up to 10>d6 fire damage effect in a 20' burst with a reflex for half of 10+spell level+caster's ability mod DC.

    The template section sets the template color and clicking on click to target in the spell casting decision will give the caster a 20' burst template as their cursor.

    Since the above spell doesn't have a Duration node, the spell is handled as instant/immediate. this means that the template is placed, selects targets, passes these targets and template to the GM for a decision. Once the GM completes the decision, the template is removed from the map and damage is dealt to the targeted creatures -- huzzah!

    For effects with a duration, there are a collection of triggers which can cause effect events to fire; On Caster Init., On Target Init, On Enter, On Exit and On Cancel are the major ones.

    A GM can also place a template which has no Player visibility. This allows a GM to place difficult terrain, traps, or other area based effects like a zone of healing.

    The UI is very crude still as we've been working hard to get the functionality working properly. Once we're done with some internal testing, we'll open the Spells section of the Feature Library to the public.

    At this point the lid is off and we'll happily answer questions!
     
    Josh Scott, Robotguy and kinwolf like this.
  18. Devil Dog

    Devil Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    1
    How quickly will we see 5e modules offered in the marketplace, once the system is up and running?
     
  19. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    158
  20. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    47
    Please have some documentation on this when you're ready to release this. It would save us all some headaches when we start to play around with adding things to the feature library. It would also give you guys more time to work on things rather than answering all of our questions. :)
     

Share This Page