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enforce uniqueness

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by unsaved, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. unsaved

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    Records should require uniqueness in some way that is visible to users. For example, creature tokens (in a campaign) and items in libraries can be entirely indistinguishable from one anther until you drill down into them. Sorting to distinguish doesn't help since users can only sort by the fields presented in the table. The most intuitive field to require to be unique would be the name. I have implemented this before by automatically adding (or incrementing) an incrementing counter when a second record is added with an already-used name.

    Example in the item list. Somebody enters a record with name "Quarterstaff". Then they enter another one with name "Quarterstaff". If that is done interactively then you can throw up a modal saying that names must be unique. If it is a non-interactive addition, then change the name of the new one to "Quarterstaff 1". If they add yet another Quarterstaff, then the algorithm will see that "Quarterstaff" is already there and that "Quarterstaff 1" is already there so add "Quarterstaff 2".

    I know that the implementation would be constrained by backwards-compatibility, merging concerns, etc., but records in any end-user-visible listing should all be distinguishable.
     
    #1 unsaved, Jul 6, 2012
  2. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    What I typically do: under the Module text field in the General Tab, is place any other searchable text you want to define the creature.

    I may have 20 different iterations of one creature... let's call him Bob. Each one is of a different level, I'd Name each iteration Bob, and update the Module to reflect the level and type of creature it is so it becomes easily searchable. I wouldn't like the Name to have to be unique for every instance, since when players see on the screen "Bob 20" they would know what version of Bob I'm using.

    The only time in which d20Pro will dynamically change the name of the creature is when you save a creature on the map to the library with an identical name and module.
     
    #2 edwardcd, Jul 6, 2012
  3. unsaved

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    I didn't think of that use case, of having different records to represent different states for the same game entity. Clever.

    That's a great thing to do, but another field like the "#" field that I think I saw (unused) in the item listing could make these Bobs easily distinguishable to the GM while leaving them indistinguishable to users on the campaign maps. I.e. uniqueness of the combination of name + (optional) # value would be required. Would have the additional benefit of explicitly displaying to the GM which records are used in this multi-state fashion.

    In the few games that I've played so far, my players are confused as to which "Goblin" is the one they were chasing, etc. It's also an annoyance for me as GM to need to remember which "Goblin" in the initiative roster is which. I know that I can click to show them on the map, but often I am busy using the map for some other purpose. I hope that you'll think about some way to enforce visible uniqueness for players except for the limited situations where the GM purposefully wants or needs to make them indistinguishable (one tactic being the # suggestion above).
     
    #3 unsaved, Jul 6, 2012
  4. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    What about...

    Options > General Tab > Show ID (this option will uniquely identify each creature loaded on all maps open with a unique number.) this unique ID is also shown on a mouse hoverover on each creature displayed after the ownership of the creature.

    Or, you can have your players create a marker and move it to whatever they want to bring your attention to.
    Or, you can have your players use the template tool to place an area
     
    #4 edwardcd, Jul 6, 2012
  5. unsaved

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    Those work-arounds help, but like most of the work-arounds discussed here, it requires players to learn more unnatural mechanics instead of the program conforming to natural game play. I'm requesting here that names be distinctive unless the GM explicitly indicates a desire for non-distinctiveness. Distinctiveness is the whole reason for having names. When people started having more and more associates over our history, we didn't start carrying identifying color patches or numbers, we added a 2nd name which made our names unique again. Everybody prefers unique names to tracking with SSNs, drivers license numbers, etc. We all name each of our children distinctively.
     
    #5 unsaved, Jul 14, 2012
  6. unsaved

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    No. Also does it when you attempt to "Import" (to creature library) a creature with an existing name.
     
    #6 unsaved, Jul 14, 2012
  7. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    lol. got me on a technicality.
    <poke> <dig in>

    The take away message I was going for was: save a create to the library and identical name and module
     
    #7 edwardcd, Jul 14, 2012
  8. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    I must admit, there are times when I run games where I will rename each monster on the board. So, let's say I have two Hellcats and I don't want to let everyone know exactly what they are going to be fighting, since their characters haven't fought one before (until a successful knowledge check). I changed the Paizo IP image to a really cute kitten picture and rename the monster to "Kitty Meowmeow" and "Kitty Meemeow." (picture change since most of my players know all the rules and all the stat blocks for all the monsters and can easily tell which creature is represented if I used any D&D or Pathfinder image for the creature. In fact, this only hides the player knowledge until either they interact with the creature or I describe them).

    Getting back to the original discussion, if the system enforced uniqueness in your example of "Quarterstaff", then you would have 4 different lines of Quarterstaffs in your inventory instead of one line that read "Quarterstaff x4". Would you think a more intuitive way to update the Items Tab (Inventory) if you added a "Quarterstaff" would be: if new then create new entry, if duplicate add +1 to the count?

    In the creature names discussion, let's say you are at a face-to-face game, and on any particular battle you have 14 cultists wearing masks, 2 lieutenants, and 1 leader. Do you tell your players each name of the 14 cultist, the 2 lieutenants, and the name of the leader, then have your players tell you (by name) which one they are targeting for attacks and spells? I wouldn't tell my players the name of each cultist - perhaps because it might be a NPC they know and like which will sway what they do (aka not kill the cultist). Also, I'm not a big fan of putting numbers at the end of names.

    Now, if there were a name generator based on the race of the creature applied to the name of the new creature on the map (with name generation upon map placement or duplication on) that would be awesome and I would play with that for a long time. Though, this is something that I would want developed after a lot of other features that reduce my prep-time. I feel that mandating adding numbers to names or items just to make it unique isn't necessary or ideal.

    Though discussion aside...
    What is the underlying issue(s) you are trying to resolve?
    What is your ideal method(s) to resolve the issue(s)?
     
    #8 edwardcd, Jul 15, 2012
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