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Gaming Table

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cyderak, Aug 10, 2010.

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  1. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Hey,

    Here the link to pictures of the gaming table that i'll be using D20 PRO on:

    http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/cy ... derak.html


    We're not done yet.

    Still adding some aesthetic-type details to the table.

    Always trying to upgrade it to enhance the gaming experience.
     
    #1 cyderak, Aug 10, 2010
  2. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    very nice. how much it cost your so far to build? me and my guys where talking about building one to but octagon shaped since there 8 of us. you may want maker sure you wood at the bottom so the air can come out from projector. don't want it to over heat =)
     
    #2 KainPen, Aug 10, 2010
  3. bigkilla

    bigkilla Member

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    That is pretty damned impressive. But I didn't know people actually met face to face anymore to play games. Seems near impossible for me to find people who can get together and play nay more.
     
    #3 bigkilla, Aug 10, 2010
  4. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    hehehe i got 3 guys that been playing for 15 years, another 2 10 years 1 more 8 years and 1 that been playing my games for 4 years.
     
    #4 KainPen, Aug 10, 2010
  5. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Hey Guys,

    To answer your questions......

    --It cost me about $500 to build it and I am still building. You could get away with doing it cheaper than I did because I went the classy route by building it out of Oak and poly-eurathaning the hell out of it.

    I just bought D20 Pro at Gencon and that was a huge upgrade from "BATTLEGROUNDS", the virtual tabletop i was using. I've used Battlegrounds, Maptools, and OpenRPG. I found that all three were buggy as hell, Maptools being the least buggy. None ran as smoothly as D20 Pro or had the features D20 Pro has. Not to mention how D20 Pro catches the eye.

    All thats left to do with the table is aesthetics at this point. Gonna attach Drawn Fantasy art wooden panels to the bottom of the table. And after they are attached, then i'll attach the Brass Footrails.

    --I have taken Projector venting into consideration so we left a 1 foot gap between the top of the art panels and the bottom of the tabletop.

    --It took a while to get the "Dream Team" of players in my group but I think we've achieved our goal. Our senses of humor are about the same and political views are similar so no real off-game small talk arguments happen.
     
    #5 cyderak, Aug 10, 2010
  6. Daggeth

    Daggeth New Member

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    All I can say is WOW. Thraxxis and I (mostly him) were working with one of the guys from Geek Chic at GenCon as they have built something very similar. It was really pretty interesting to hear about all that went into building their table. Do you have any problems with it bowing in the middle from the pressure of everybody touching it? The overhead lights in the convention hall made it hard to see the screen so its nice to see something similar in a normal home setting. Not sure of your cost so far but their price tag was certainly not small.
     
    #6 Daggeth, Aug 10, 2010
  7. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Like I said......Its made of Oak so the 1/4" thick plexiglass screen never bows.

    One downside, as of right now, is that we have to play in the dark. But I have installed LED Light strips so it lights up the book shelves and at the same time doesn't throw light onto the screen.

    As soon as I get enough money(i.e....my wife allowing me to use the tax refund), I plan on buying a projector that has a very short throwing distance and puts out at least 3000 to 3500 lumens, thus allowing me to use the game table with the lights on.
     
    #7 cyderak, Aug 10, 2010
  8. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    good idea. we where thinking of bounce projector off mirror, but your idea is a lot better giving it touch screen capabilities. I would still get use of my minis, and with D20 pro my guys who want to play on laptops can still do so. :D it is win win.
     
    #8 KainPen, Aug 10, 2010
  9. shoggothic

    shoggothic New Member

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    Cyderak, I am about to purchase d20Pro, and I had some more questions that I hoped you could answer in regards to your great gaming table.

    Does the frosted finish of the plexi stop the projected image entirely, or does some of the light filter onto the ceiling and/or the player's faces? Does the opacity of the plexi permit you to look down onto the game table without being blinded by the light from the projector?
    Is the frosted finish in the plexi, or is it a film on the plexi (just trying to narrow down the type of plexi-glass you used)?
    And finally, is the image on the plexi from the projector cloudy or crisp (a couple of the pics on your thread look as if the maps are cloudy, but it could just be the pics themselves)?

    Thanks in advance for your help, my players & I really appreciate it!

    Regards,
    Shogg
     
    #9 shoggothic, Aug 17, 2010
  10. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Hey Shoggothic,

    To answer your questions:
    --We went to a hardware store and had them custom cut a 3' x 3' sheet of 1/4" thick Plexi-Glass. We then bought some film which is regularly used to frost glass on office windows but also works for clear acrylic plastic. The image is projected onto the plexi-glass and yes, some of the light passes through the frosted film but the image is as crisp as its going to get with a lower resolution projector. The light does not blind asny of the players and you cannot see inside the table when the projector is on or off. The projector only puts out 1700 lumens(measurement of light output). A good output is probably somewhere around 2500 Lumens. A GREAT output is somewhere around 3000 - 3500 Lumens. And most time those projectors are better quality and made in the last few years so they are probably high definition to boot. Another thing to take into consideration is throwing distance. Meaning how far you have to be from the intended projection surface to get the desired image length and width. The smaller the throwing distance the better because it opens up your building options for the frame of the table. To sum up.......If you want an awesome gaming experience and you have the money to spend then buy the awesome, high definition, short throw distance, 3200 - 3500 Lumens Projector. If you want an O.K. gaming experience then go with the DLP, medium throw distance, 2600 - 3000 Lumens projector. If you want the Affordable and maybe later upgradable gaming table then go with Low definition, Bounce image off a mirror inside the table, 1900 - 2500 Lumens Projector.

    if you have any other questions, let me know

    Later
     
    #10 cyderak, Aug 17, 2010
  11. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Heres a picture of the newest artwork Panel going on the game table.

    This is a replica oil painting that a friend's girlfriend did for us. She is emensely talented. She also plans on doing the other three panels for the remaining sides of the table.

    Any suggestions which artwork to use for the remaining three sides????
     

    Attached Files:

    #11 cyderak, Aug 19, 2010
  12. KainPen

    KainPen Member

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    ahhh old school dragon lance art. I have that picture some where. :D
     
    #12 KainPen, Aug 19, 2010
  13. shoggothic

    shoggothic New Member

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    Cyderak, thanks for answering my questions and responding so quickly, I really appreciate it! Okay, I've got the table construction bit down, but I've got a few other questions regarding how exactly you are utilizing the table with d20Pro.

    It sounds as if we are on the same page regarding keeping the miniatures in play, and was curious if you use the Fog of War function with your miniatures, and if so how do you use it with the miniatures? I've got some idea of how to do it, I just wanted to know what you do, since you've been there, done that.

    In your thread you only had one PC visible. Does that mean you, as the DM, run an Extended Desktop setting so you can display the DM client on your PC and the Player client on the projected screen? Do you let the players control their own movements through the use of their own PCs, or do you move their counters/miniatures for them? I wanted to run both clients as the DM, and just move the character counters based on where the players actually move their miniatures, while only revealing areas as they explore/encounter them.

    Finally, do you manipulate the map images by replacing undamaged areas/items with damaged or destroyed ones, or use sound effects, such as when someone bashes in a door or blows up a room with a fireball? Just curious if this is possible, since I want to bring in my Dundjinni maps and be able to alter maps to reflect changing environments based on collateral damage, magic, or weather.

    Again, thanks for your help in advance!

    Regards,
    Shogg
     
    #13 shoggothic, Aug 19, 2010
  14. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Hey shogg,

    The way I use miniatures along with fog of war is that I have the placing of the miniatures pre-determined so essentially the fog of war just conceals the contents and layout of the room. I also use the creature tokens too. For the most part I just use regular miniatures for minis I either don't have creature tokens for or minis, in general, that look freakin awesome and I can't help but use the real mini instead of the virtual mini.

    I run D20Pro DM client on my computer as the DM. And then run a player client on the projection table. And because the Gaming Table acts like a Smart Board (interactive touch screen) the players can move their character with a Infrared Pen. I also use real minis for the representation of the characters. The virtual minis are used for placement purposes. When spells come into play they just tell me which creatures they want to encompass in their area of effect and I place the spell template accordingly.

    If you wanted to replace rooms with damaged rooms after a spell goes off i think the best way to do that is to create a jpeg of that room and place the damaged room on the map as an object over the top of the completely intact room. but then again your players could just use their imagination in reguards to the room being toast, post-spell. Hehehehe.
     
    #14 cyderak, Aug 19, 2010
  15. shoggothic

    shoggothic New Member

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    Cyderak, Once again, thanks for getting back to me so quickly!

    In your opinion, what is the most important attribute for a projector, Resolution, Brightness (Lumens), or Contrast Ratio? You wrote before to go for 3000 lumens Brightness and up. I found lots of 'short throw' and 'ultra-short throw' projectors, but range between 2500 and 4500 lumens Brightness, with XGA Resolutions and Contrast Ratios ranging all over the place. So, basically, what is a good mix? I don't mind forking the cash for a high end projector, but I'm not too sure which attribute(s) to shoot for.

    Regards,
    Shogg
     
    #15 shoggothic, Aug 19, 2010
  16. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Well,

    If your gonna go whole hog, Get a projector like this: (or one like it.)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

    I looked it up on several different sites and every site says it is top notch.

    Everything you'll need to get that "Nirvana-like" gaming experience.
     
    #16 cyderak, Aug 19, 2010
  17. djc664

    djc664 Member

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    First, thanks to Cyderak for posting the pictures of his table. :)

    I've finally been able to make the jump to projector-ville for my game room. Spent most of the weekend working on a ceiling rig for my basement rafters where we have our cliche'd game room. For now it's top-down, but eventually I'm going to be building the projector into the table much the same as Cyderak.

    I wanted to highly recommend the Optoma Gametime 720. The ceiling in my basement is only around 6'6" total, so for it to work above OR below the table without mirrors, I had to get a super short-throw. In my research, it ended up between the Gametime 700, Gametime 720 & Dell S300. The Dell is actually a bit shorter of a throw, so it could work better for space concerns. In the end, the brightness, brand reputation and price won me over to the Gametime 720. I snagged it from Ebay, NIB, for $700 bucks. I then saw it in Best Buy for $1299.... :) Woot!

    One thing I can tell you... this thing is BRIGHT! Like, hurts my eyes bright. It is super bright with all the lights on in the room and daylight streaming in the windows at normal... nevermind max brightness. I'm going to see whether I can make a video to show how bright I mean.

    As to panels: if it were my table, I'd have some old AD&D module/Gold Box covers... maybe Curse of the Azure Bonds, PHB 1E cover, Temple of Elemental Evil, Ravenloft, the Death of Sturm.... So much fantastic art to choose from! Also, I concur - that lady is amazingly talented! Awesome painting.
     
    #17 djc664, Aug 25, 2010
  18. 9amJedi

    9amJedi New Member

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    Cyderak,

    Using the mirror as you do, do you have an issue with everything being backward? Or is this taken care of with the wii-mote/ir pen set up?
     
    #18 9amJedi, Nov 27, 2010
  19. cyderak

    cyderak Member

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    Because my projector is built into my game table, it projects onto a mirror and then the image is captured in the frosted plexi-glass screen........it projects backwards onto the Back-side of the plexi-glass screen but on the other side of the plexi-glass screen, being the side of it thats seen by us the gamers on the outside of the table as the table-top surface, the image isn't backwards anymore. Almost have to see it to fully understand.


    I just got word from my buddy who helped me the most with building our game table that he has a guy who wants to fund our little business venture so we can build game tables for other people.

    that is indeed freakin awesome.........So i'd like to personally offer our services for building game tables. The prices actually depend on what options you want included with the game table and what equipment such as Laptops....projectors....and such, that you already own. Those factors would definitely cut down on the price of the table. Might even work with the D20Pro guys on developing a version of D20Pro that works directly with the game tables.


    Everything's up in the air for right now until we get an idea of how much demand is for these tables.

    If anyone's interested in purchasing a custom Game Table, e-mail me at: cyderak@yahoo.com
     
    #19 cyderak, Nov 27, 2010
  20. djc664

    djc664 Member

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    Or... another way of putting it... If you were projecting onto the mirror 'as the screen', or just looked at the mirror itself, it would be backward. The reflection on the back of the plexi-glass that has bounced *off* a mirror corrects the reversal, due to the magic of physics and light waves. :) If you're interested in the engineering of this in detail, here's a decent write-up... http://www.fordav.com/publications/cb16.pdf

    One small detail is that you have to make sure that your projector has a "rear projection" setting - most on the market at this point do, though, so it's not a huge worry.
     
    #20 djc664, Dec 1, 2010
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