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Toggle Information Display

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Thurgian, May 31, 2010.

  1. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    My players have learned that they can learn much about a monster by mousing over it. I can't tell (because all players currently share the same machine) but I imagine that players can also tell about the statistics of other players.

    From a player perspective, I wouldn't want people to be able to inspect me - I always hated that feature in WoW.

    From a DM perspective, an encounter was just made less enjoyable, becaue my players were able to see that the "Damsle in Distress" was really a were-tiger.

    Likewise, when players use an ability on a creature, it always shows them the creature name as well.

    I prefer that polayers not know, automatically, the name of every mob they face; but rather use skill checks and such to learn that information.

    So, can we hide information from the players, please?

    Edit, player information is indeed hidden from other players. The player's name shows; but that isn't an issue.

    (Which means until the monster is identified, the players should not be able to see the name of the monster: During Mouse Over, when using a power that targets a monster, or when viewing the roster.)

    So, I just need a way to hide the true names of monsters from my players = other than renaming all of my monsters "Large Humanoid", etc...
     
  2. ogexam

    ogexam Member

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    The way to hide the name is to change the name. that is the only way currently.

    If you set the team to unknown purple in color it will not show the pic you have but a generic head piece so when the player hover over they have no clue what it is, they can just see the size and location.
     
  3. Dan

    Dan Member

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    Yes, just change the monster name. For example, instead of Vampire I might use "dark figure" or whatever. I had a fight in a module where the party fought a stuffed dragon (animated object) but put ZOMBIE DRAGON!?! in the name. The party was only 4th level so they kinda flipped out. The name is what you want it to be.

    Keep in mind that the creature on the map is an INSTANCE of the one in the library. That is, your Werewolf in the library is your template, and when you drag him to the map, you spawn a copy. You can then rename that werewolf on the map to Lumberjack and then use the CLONE command (C key or right-click menu) to create clones of that instance.

    So you only need to rename a creature once and then clone it to make more just like it.

    Even if we wanted to code another field (for Display Name and True Name) then you would still need to enter in the info. No time saved. Oh, and if you want to have the True name listed somewhere, just use the Notes tab - that information is never seen by a player unless they own the creature.

    Also, if you want to "hide" the hit point damage, just give the creature Current hp as normal but reduce it's maximum. I do this for incorporeal creatures, since I don't think they should show damage. My specters for example have 40/1 hit points - so they don't appear to take damage until they die. This works for Bloodied too, so you could set a creature's hit points to 40/20 so that they don't appear to take damage until they drop below 20 hp.

    Pretty kewl.
     
  4. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    I do use the starting health > actual health trick for most mobs.

    However, I have found that it doesn't work ideally with monsters that have regeneration, or can heal (or be healed). For, as long as the monsters current health is greater than it's starting health, regeneration doesn't work. For monsters that can heal, I have to remember to check the appropriate box to give them temporary hit points.

    My players have figured out that monsters that show their hit points, can regenerate. Therefore, I have to turn off automatic regeneration (display the monsters as usual) and remember to regenerate for the monsters.

    I really wasn't asking for two fields, as that would indeed be extra work. Just that all monsters initially be shown as "monster" or alternately the name associated with their color, or even a predefined name that is typed into options.

    Actually hiding monster health would be a plus (for the reasons already given) as well. I require the players to utilize the appropriate skill check, to gain that level of information.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Member

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    Monster health is already hidden - at least the actual values. The players only see a percentage of the monster's health bar - which makes sense for the general abstraction of damage in D&D. Monsters that are nearly dead should appear so - you just don't know whether they are at 20/200 or 1/20. Given a few rounds of fighting, seasoned combatant should be able to have a rough idea (red bar) of how hurt his/her opponent is.
     
  6. huntercc

    huntercc New Member

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    While I agree this is true, I like the idea of at least having an option to disable this behavior altogether. I don't know if you would want a separate option per monster, or just a global on/off selection (like judge dice rolls), but either way I definitely think an option is a good idea.
     
  7. ogexam

    ogexam Member

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    I do not think it would be hard to turn off the red on a character.

    Is there any other users that would be interested in turning off the damage % being shown?

    We could do a global toggle show or not show.
     
  8. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    I would like such a feature.

    The current mechanism requires that I use the starting-ealth > maximum-health work-a-round; and doesn't function properly with monsters that can regenerate.

    The current mechanism also, negates a skill-check by giving the players the information for free.
     
  9. ogexam

    ogexam Member

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    It only gives you an approximation of hit points.

    a creature with 1000 hitpoints that has taken 200 points of damage looks the same as a creature with 10 hitpoints that has taken 2 points of damage.

    Though I can see how people may be interested in shutting it on and off at will. I'll look into it.
     
  10. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    However, if the player knows how much damage they did. That approximation gets very precise.

    A first time player, first night using d20pro, was guessing monster total health within 10% consistantly.
     
  11. Lord Elderon

    Lord Elderon New Member

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  12. Minandreas

    Minandreas New Member

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    I would like to see this feature as well. I can think of a number of uses for it.

    As for the argument about players being able to judge the enemies actual HP value, my answer is that there is no good solution. There simply isn't.
    If the player can see how "hurt" a mob is, then that adds a nice touch of realism and greatly reduces the amount of time the DM has to spend explaining the appearance of a monster ("He looks pretty badly injured... blah blah blah"). The trade off is that the players can start meta gaming.

    If you want to remove that meta gaming, you have to take away the automation of how "hurt" they are. You will have to do it all manually through descriptions. Which can be tedious, but definitly doable.

    The only other thing that could be done would be to hide the damage being dealt. Which is actually the most realistic thing in my opinion... So the barbarian sees that his sword did indeed make some form of contact with the apparition. Did it hurt it? How badly did it hurt it if it even did? Well, who knows? It's a freaking ghost. You can't tell how hurt it is OR how badly you may have hurt it. In this case the player couldn't see their own damage, or the red bar on the enemy.
    If it were a big ass orc. Ok, now you would see the HP bar. But just because you took a nice slash to him doesn't mean you can quantify that slash. Putting numbers to it doesn't really make sense. It hit, and it seemed to hurt because now he's bleeding. But you can't quantify it...
    But this would cause a riot from the players, as half the fun is seeing those big tasty numbers. So we've reached an impasse...
     
  13. Dan

    Dan Member

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    I think being able to toggle damage reports (like you toggle dice results) should be doable. Also, being able to toggle hp reporting should be possible too. I'll run it by the devs.
     
  14. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    Just bringing this one back to the forefront; as it drives me nuts :D

    /rant

    The "Notes" tab would be a great place to put "secret stuff" but it onloy supports input of one line of text at a time (and has an annoying habit of closing the screen when you press enter).

    This means, that for any "stuff" of length, I either have to place the information into the Description Panel or I have to put a reference to a handout into the panel. (Monster 31e for example).

    When I have lots of time, I use the "refer to handout" option. I would prefer to not take those extra steps, but it does work.

    When I am pressed for time, I put descriptive text into the descriptiion tab. This text is either a copy/paste of the Monster Builder/Compendium page of the monster (when any of it's attacks do anything besides damage, or it has any special features/properties); or it is a word for word narrative of how a particular encounter is supposed to go - DC checks for traps, where the traps are, what the players need to do, etc).

    The end result is that players can read things that they shouldn't. While my encounter mobs (invisible placeholders) are usually invisible. It has happened that I have ,made one visible or dynamic by mistake - this is akin to allowing the players to read through the adventure.

    Last night I caught one of the players "clicking" on monsters in the roster, and then reading their descriptions (to learn their resists and such). I told him point blank "if you click on anything else that doesn't belong to you, you are getting minion status (health 1/1). I only caught him, because he was using the PC connected to the projector. I have no idea if the players using laptops, or the players connecting remotely, make this a standard practice.

    /end rant

    For the most part, I can work around the "Health Display" (except for mobs that regenerate), and I suppose that I can live with players knowing the name of the mobs they are fighting; but DM's either need a private information tab - or players should lose the ability to see the description.
     
  15. Dan

    Dan Member

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    Whoooaah.... Notes tab works JUST like descriptions tab, but with an added quick note feature called Annotation.

    The annotation is optional, and allows you to add a small bit of text to the creature's Tooltip. It's not the method you use to add notes.

    Just click on the notes space and paste whole paragraphs if you want.
     
  16. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    the /rant was in jest :p (I know better than to joke in text format - my apologies)

    Now "kick me" - It was never obvious to me that you could paste into the notes page ...

    /e has been demoted to minion status
     
  17. Dan

    Dan Member

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    No worries, I just felt bad that you were frustrated and didn't need to be. :)

    One thing that might throw you off (it did me) is that the NOTES section is now displayed in the Mini's Story Tab.

    Note that this information is ONLY available to owners, not others. Again, the Story tab in the Mini now combines Description and Notes tabs for owners, and shows only Description for non-owners.
     
  18. Thurgian

    Thurgian New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification - because I did see the notes information; and was indeed confused.

    I will have to rearrange a few monsters, but things will be better as I amke more.
     

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