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Allow players to edit character

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Daeruin, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. ChrisRevocateur

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    Unlimited release.
     
  2. razorbit

    razorbit New Member

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    Apparently, we'll get some kind of mobile device ready character sheet in 2015 that we can edit.
    http://forums.d20pro.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2699

     
  3. Tinyish

    Tinyish New Member

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    Still looking for this. As far as I'm concerned, this is the ONLY reason that I don't use this software that I own a licence for. There is no other change or update at all that I would consider more important than this. I cannot think of anything else that needs to be fixed. The rest of the software is completely usable from my point of view.

    I've had to resort to using player licences for other virtual tabletop software owned by my friends and I don't like those as much as D20Pro but I don't even bother bringing up the idea to use D20Pro because this one aspect is so broken.
     
  4. Coopernicus

    Coopernicus Member

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    ~ The issue I think, is that "in my mind" is exactly that. What the overwhelming majority of already paid for (whether judge or player licensed) users are not so subtly saying is that this has been an oddly missing feature for years. Whether or not it annoys *you* is not the issue. The users have spoken and they want a practical and well thought out process for player's to edit their characters in game WITHOUT making it slow down the game. If I can click "e" on a character I control, why can't my players? (it's ok, I trust these guys... I can turn on unlimited-auto permissions, right?!)

    I remember the day my player's and I found out they couldn't edit their own sheets. We were all completely stunned (simultaneous 1's were auto-rolled for 1 round).
    Why wouldn't what would seem to be an intuitive feature to include, be missing?

    It needs to be an intrinsic feature in Unlimited, or else it's absence will be a glaring spotlight of fail on an otherwise robust and practical piece of well loved (by this group) software.
     
  5. Wesley Gorby

    Wesley Gorby Production/Community Manager
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    Since this was started long long before I became associated with the d20pro group, I'm going to stand my ground here a little bit and defend what I have already said (as a longtime user of the software)...

    I think the option for a judge to be able to toggle 'players edit characters' should be there. However, your notions of the idea that it is an ""overwhelming majority of already paid for (whether judge or player licensed) users are not so subtly saying"" is a bit flawed. There are ways to do it, and those methods have been discussed here, they just do not seem to fall within your "'instant gratification philosophy"".

    But honestly, and to be repetitive, it can be done just not in an "inline" way that you want currently at this time. Likewise, I also do not feel ""this has been an oddly missing feature for years"". Given the development model of the time, I understand why the devs choose to take the path they did, as I have explained before, In my personal opinion I totally agree with the way they went. For the maturity of the software, the costs to the users, the functionality at the time, it made total sense.

    I know my response here seems a bit harsh, and I do not really mean for it to come across that way. It just seems that though people have gone out of their way to try and offer reason and method; not only from a design point of view, but also from some practical usage point of view as to the "hows & whys". As to your issue, you seem to have remained on the soap box and exclaimed that no one has heard you, and I for one just do not think that is the case...
     
  6. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    Thank you everyone for your comments and the discussion. The start of this discussion was also before I became a team member of d20Pro. And as I have previously stated, my group all owns their own d20Pro GM license - and while I am on the team, did I get the license free = no. I paid the same license price everyone else did to support the development; and same with all my players.

    Some background:
    When the team first set out to define the specs, a decision was made on who owns the creatures and how they are updated. So currently there is no transmitting new data to the d20Pro host on updating any creature using the "E" or view character sheet from the player's side.

    Current Creature Update Model
    The currently supported solution for d20Pro is exporting a creature from a GM license of d20Pro, exporting a d20Pro creature from Hero Lab or PCGEN, then submitting to the current GM.
    1. If using a GM license of d20Pro, we simply export the creature then in Player mode use the Game Tools > Upload Creature button and submit your new updated character sheet.
    2. If using a character creation application like Hero Lab or PCGEN to export in the appropriate format and send to the GM, they can perform an update using the new character update tool to get the updated information.

    If money is tight and only have one license for the group, there isn't a rule against sharing that GM license with your gaming group; and just having everyone login as guest player when joining the game. We do track IP and when licenses are downloaded and at what time to what machine - as long as it's only a few machines we won't impose license restrictions. However, we hope that you like the application enough to further support development through more GM license sales.

    Looking towards the future
    Currently this requested feature is on the d20Pro Unlimited Software Roadmap, slated for the v2015.2 public release of d20Pro Unlimited. With the Mobile App interactive character sheet with read and write capabilities.
     
  7. razorbit

    razorbit New Member

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    I've been playing in d20pro games for a few years now using a Guest license. Full disclosure: I have never run a game in d20pro nor do I plan to or purchase any licenses. It's just not for me. I prefer the old fashioned style of gaming where things run loose, rules are more like guidelines and I want as little to do as a GM as possible (as in, less rules/stats/tracking, more story development, game prep, etc.).

    That being said, I think D20Pro is very good at providing a framework to control some of the more complex chores of gaming. Especially for a system like Pathfinder, it is probably very helpful as a GM to have many of the stats and effects tracked and managed automatically. Interface is clean, fairly well organized, rich in features, reliable, well maintained, etc.

    For me, for my entire gaming group (of primarily old middle aged white males) who grew up playing games around a table we just can't understand why players aren't able to easily edit their characters. D20Pro is this beautiful, fancy, shiny car that can handle the sharpest corners, gets great gas mileage but if you're a player, you have to get in through the trunk. It's inconvenient at best. But what's worse is, it's burdensome to the GM (or at least our GM because we old guys will not tolerate the current creature update model) to the point where we hear an audible sigh when we go up a level from our GM because he has to update all of our characters for us.

    I'm sure there are many groups out there that can tolerate this model and maybe even prefer it. But it's not for me. It's not for any of the people I game with. It feels like we're trying to fit a role playing game into a board game box and it just doesn't fit. I hope one day, the player modifiable character sheet feature gets implemented.

    PS. I have enjoyed many aspects of d20pro and despite my vocal aggravation over this one aspect of the software, I do not hate you all to pieces.
     
  8. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    Here is what I've said for years...
    Use d20Pro how you want to play, whatever makes your game prep and play enjoyable for you. You don't have to use all the automation tools available, you can simply use it as a virtual table with tokens as your character placement only - just like if everyone was face-to-face around a table and held paper with writing on it = character sheet. You can always have the Players keep track of their own characters, just like in a face-to-face game. Have your players roll real dice and communicate what they rolled just like the "old fashioned style of gaming." This will allow the GM enforce any custom rule, guideline, or game mechanic possible. Or step it up one notch and keep track of HP on your monsters. Or step it up one more notch and keep all stats of monsters and tracking HP on d20Pro.

    I think you overlooked in my previous post:
    So, this feature will exist in d20Pro Unlimited 2015.2 and will get improvements thereafter, just like other features. And again, a feature in an application doesn't mean you have to use it. Use only the features that makes your game play enjoyable.
     
  9. razorbit

    razorbit New Member

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    I did not overlook your previous post. I just don't believe you, yet. ;)

     
  10. edwardcd

    edwardcd Administrator
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    lol, fair enough. And that post was before I was on the d20Pro team. I started on the d20Pro team on v3.1. Remember there was a choice made before all this which shaped the programming of the features that it could support. The legacy d20Pro model does not allow the feature requested as a rewrite would be need to allow this. This is one of the reasons why we are moving towards the d20Pro Unlimited model which will support the player sending more data/information to the GM. And it just wasn't feasible to change in legacy d20Pro as there were much more low hanging fruit to accomplish to make other features better. So from a design-programming stance you can see why we chose to focus on other things.
     

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