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I'm about fed up with this software. Not sure why I've paid for this.

Discussion in 'Bug Reports & Installation Support' started by darthgator, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Production/Community Manager
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    clonhold.jpg

    the map you sent is empty.. there are no tokens, or anything on it..
     
  2. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Might remove some of the lights from the npc/monster tokens. More lights = slower processing in my experience.
     
  3. Bloodwolf

    Bloodwolf Member

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    I have become very familiar with this program, to the point of being able to assist with questions on the floor at Gencon while you guys were busy with other people, but I did not know that Edges were a higher resource drain than Walls. Is this due to Walls having a single function and thus a limited pass interaction where the coding for Edge norms is still there but inactive so the program must do multiple passed over each Edge to render norms that we can't see?
     
  4. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Production/Community Manager
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    I think so, I can ask T when I talk to him tomorrow.
     
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  5. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Hey folks. I've been heads down working on various bits and bobs. I'll try to put together a video tutorial going over the specifics.

    the main thing is that edges are not walls. Walls are what you'd use to enclose your map the way you're looking too. And for places where you want to prevent light from ever entering, but eventually reveal the insides, you can use an unlocked edge (enclosed or otherwise).

    doing this will let you toggle the visibility of the edge object -- where as a locked edge or wall will not toggle it's visibility ever.

    this was documented in the last fog of war release content and posted about extensively to the kickstarter backers, however, it's a lot to take in.
     
  6. Tay-Dor

    Tay-Dor Active Member

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    Yah, I've seen all that and still don't understand the difference between Walls and Edges. They seem to do the same thing functionally, currently.
     
  7. mrwinfree

    mrwinfree Member

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    Tay, I feel the same way! I really haven't wrapped my head around the difference and by following the initial youtube walk through there are walls and edges similarly overlapped. Krillion, thanks for taking a look. Sorry about that, I will try that again. Hope I didn't screw anything up on my map! Well, the map with all the tokens, lights, walls and edges has a lock icon beside it in the library and it says I cannot export it. Any suggestions?
     
  8. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Production/Community Manager
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    See also -> http://d20pro.com/category/dev/

    Edges and Walls do 'Appear' similar on the front side of the application. However, at some point in time here shortly, Edge functionality will change to be more robust and thus set them fully apart from walls.

    As to the locked map, you could zip the campaign folder and send that over.
     
  9. Bloodwolf

    Bloodwolf Member

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    The biggest thing to note is that Edges were, and will be, meant to do other things but the coding had bugs that have taken time to fix. Thus for the moment they work the same but will change in the future.

    Originally Edges were supposed to function like one way mirrors. They were supposed to allow light to pass through from one direction, either from outside in or inside out, but not allow light to pass through the other way. Thus allowing a column, statue, door, etc to cast a shadow but still show the artwork. But they had a severe light bleed problem and thus that feature has been deactivated until the bug can be fixed.
     
  10. Krilion_GD

    Krilion_GD Production/Community Manager
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    right, or you could do 'Wall of darkness' effects, or portalways you could see thru in one direction but not the other or the like.. spiffy stuff...
     
  11. mrwinfree

    mrwinfree Member

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    Well, I attempted to upload the .zip file but I fear it may be a bit large at 650 mb. I have gone back an made some modifications to the map. I reduced the size of the map. I also rebuilt it with fewer lights and only a few edges. Now, it appears to be working much better for me. I appreciate all of the help, I had hit a real snag with this one. Now, Friday's game should go much more smoothly.
    Mickey
     
  12. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Two things to chime in on. One: edges will get a repass after we get out from under the kickstarter reqs. There's a limit to how far we can carry one aspect of the requirements without getting massive flak unfortunately. Two: wetransfer.com is agreat for large files (under 2GB). Just send to support@d20pro.com as the target address.

    Edges were meant to be the only open object type originally.

    If you create a new campaign in the current release you'll see some sample maps which use walls, edges, masks and doors to cover areas. This is intended to offer a basic 'example' pending proper documentation.

    Also, as the dev who wrote the blog that Kril linked too -- that entry is fairly accurate with the exception of the bug fixes we had to introduce to the edge objects.

    basically, what was happening with edges in their intended state was that lights which cast perpendicular to an edge line would cast through the line and out the other side of the object... 1 degree off and everything was fine -- thus our initial thoughts that all was well.
     
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  13. mrwinfree

    mrwinfree Member

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    Thank you OwlBear! I appreciate all the work you guys are putting into this. We Transfer is an awesome service, thanks for that tip too!
     
  14. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Thanks and wetransfer is downloading as I type! I've a few meetings this morning, but will check out the issues from the transfer after those are completed
     
  15. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Darthgator, in case you're not seeing the PM's, I sent you a request to sync up directly so we can figure out what's going wrong during your sessions. There is no reason you should be having this much trouble with the maps and shadowcasting features. I'd like to get to the bottom of it if we can.
     
  16. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Immediate things I noticed with this map which can help speed up performance. Add a surrounding wall/walls object.

    upload_2016-11-7_10-14-58.png

    Basically, to create a surrounding wall to encapsulate my map and prevent lights from bleeding off the edge of the world I do the following:
    1. Open Game Tools and select Draw Mode.
    2. Toggle Snap to Grid from the lower check box options on the Game Tools menu or press 'P' (keyboard shortcut)
    3. Starting in a corner of the map, draw a perimeter several grid units thick around the map. Be sure not to complete close the shape as clicking on the start point will tell D20PRO's polygon draw tools to seal the area off.

      upload_2016-11-7_10-19-13.png
    4. After you've drawn the shape above, switch to Manipulate mode and press 'L' (unlock) and 'E' (edit) to edit the shape
    5. Press 'P' to toggle the Snap to Grid off and pressy 'O' to snap to Knot (if it's not already on)
    6. Drag the last two points in your perimeter onto the first two points as shown below

      upload_2016-11-7_10-21-13.png
    7. Press 'E' to exit edit mode. The resulting shape should enclose your map and also seal up at the corner like so

      upload_2016-11-7_10-22-19.png

      You can manipulate the inner points using the edit mode if your map doesn't conform to a rectangle.
     
  17. owlbear

    owlbear Administrator
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    Next, I noticed that you had three edge objects which were completely inside of wall objects. These are not going to do anything because they're inside of an object that either prevents light from entering or disable light when on. If the wall is passive, it'll allow light to be displayed but will not display contents.

    Not knowing your adventure, I'm assuming that these are redundant to the walls themselves -- however, I did notice that these walls were set to passive. Perhaps unintentionally?

    Anyway, I think these edges might be contributing to your issue as they require processing even though they are not visible.

    By making the walls Interactive (I mode vs P mode), lights will not penetrate the edges of the Wall object.

    upload_2016-11-7_10-28-53.png

    Also, the entry door should have been set to Interactive as well. However the Mask with the squared of edge (labeled 'stoop' on your map) can and probably should have been passive.

    With all of that updated I re-enabled your lights and tested with a couple of players connected. While in Game Tools and painting alpha coloring on the FoW objects, thing would get slow for the GM, but the player experience was solid.

    When out of Game Tools with "hide fog of war" checked -- this just hides the alpha blending -- the GM and player epxeriences were zippy even with all of the lights turned on.

    upload_2016-11-7_10-31-51.png

    here's a peek at the final set up I was running with for the fog of war objects.

    upload_2016-11-7_10-32-49.png
     
  18. mrwinfree

    mrwinfree Member

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    Wow, that was so much more that I anticipated. I will look more closely at this tonight after work! It just reaffirms the good decision I made to support youse guys.
    Mickey
     
  19. mrwinfree

    mrwinfree Member

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